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Black belt degrees are bullshit
6 year(s) ago • 9380 views • 90 replies
SBBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I guess I'm in the minority here because I like it. Time in grade for black belts are an homage to the many hours on the mats AFTER the 10 years of so it took to get their black belt. After 10 + years of having to prove their worth at each belt level, it is OK to get a stripe just for showing up. There is some kind of wisdom one gains from just being around something for decades that you just don't get in a couple of years. Having "been there and done that" enough times you've pretty much seen it all and bring that experience to the table and it is OK that that kind of experience/wisdom is recognized in such a hardscrabble sport.
Also, I don't think stripes indicate ability on the mat the way that color does. I'm more likely to get wrecked by a relatively new black belt than a 3 or 4 stripe black belt because the extra decade at black belt typically makes you slower, weaker, less flexible, and MUCH nicer than you once were.
Also, I don't think stripes indicate ability on the mat the way that color does. I'm more likely to get wrecked by a relatively new black belt than a 3 or 4 stripe black belt because the extra decade at black belt typically makes you slower, weaker, less flexible, and MUCH nicer than you once were.
DCBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Judo black belts use a combination of points accumulated at tournaments of various levels along with time in grade. I believe for your first black belt stripe you can not compete but participate actively in the sport for 5 years and get that first stripe or if you win a Regional or Pan Am or higher level major tournament you can get your first stripe on as little as 1 year, with 2, 3 or 4 years also possible with different levels of competitive success. They have these formulas all the way up through 5th degree at which point I believe it slightly changes for coral belts.
AGBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
If there was going to be a formal stratification of black belts, I wish it was meaningful. Something that would symbolize the difference between Leandro Lo vs Regular Joe. That's the only meaningful difference between black belts, not that this guy was a black belt for 30 years vs 2 years.
SBBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I think the meaningful difference is that you know Leandro Lo's name and the other guy is referred to as regular joe. Also, his six world championship medals around his neck can serve as his stripes :-)
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Judo black belts use a combination of points accumulated at tournaments of various levels along with time in grade.
I really like how judo pretty much forces you to have something to show for your rank, and it forces you to stay involved and engaged in the community, at least to some degree, in order to continue advancing up the hierarchy.
If bjj adopted something a little more standard like this though, it might just throw a bit of a wrench in the standard bjj pyramid scheme...
If bjj adopted something a little more standard like this though, it might just throw a bit of a wrench in the standard bjj pyramid scheme...
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Stripes on your Black Belt are for the exact same reason as for every other belt: A marker of time. A 4 stripe blue belt may not be better than a 2 stripe blue belt it just means he's been a blue belt longer. Same for Black Belt. So if you remove them from the Black Belt, then remove them from every belt. So what criteria should there be to get the red/black, red/white, and red? Should a red belt be tapping all black belts? This rabbit hole gets deeper than you think.
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Stripes on your Black Belt are for the exact same reason as for every other belt: A marker of time. A 4 stripe blue belt may not be better than a 2 stripe blue belt it just means he's been a blue belt longer.
I'm not sure if everybody would agree to this criteria. Not everybody promotes based solely on time served.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I'm not sure if everybody would agree to this criteria. Not everybody promotes based solely on time served.
That's on them to be different and they can do whatever they want. But a stripe on your belt has NOTHING to do with your actual skill as far as the general BJJ community is concerned. If it did then they would separate your stripes at a tournament. Which they don't.
VMPurple beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Daniel >> This kind of makes sense but on the other hand, IBJJF will promote people to black belt degrees online without a signature from a professor, so how do we explain that?
Isn't it the signature on the cheque (check) that counts with IBJJF?
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Just read on another "checker" site that some folks have to write essays and a thesis for their next belt promotion (degrees).
How would that fly in BJJ? I speak for myself when I say I'd have to be a forever green belt before I did something like that.
Thoughts? No response is right or wrong so blast away.
How would that fly in BJJ? I speak for myself when I say I'd have to be a forever green belt before I did something like that.
Thoughts? No response is right or wrong so blast away.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Just read on another 'checker' site that some folks have to write essays and a thesis for their next belt promotion (degrees). How would that fly in BJJ? I speak for myself when I say I'd have to be a forever green belt before I did something like that. Thoughts? No response is right or wrong so blast away.
Not doing BJJ, plain and simple.
TPBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Just read on another 'checker' site that some folks have to write essays and a thesis for their next belt promotion (degrees). How would that fly in BJJ? I speak for myself when I say I'd have to be a forever green belt before I did something like that. Thoughts? No response is right or wrong so blast away.
Somebody on here described a belt test where he was asked to recite his BJJ lineage while exhausted mid-roll. I think we could turn it up a notch and have students writing essays about the virtuous nature of jiu-jitsu while getting beat up by upper belts. Handwriting part of the assessment criteria.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
i have to be honest I only care about knowledge required and ability to perform.. For me the belt level is just an indicator of where I should compete at.. Other than that I find the belt systems in martial arts to be rather meaningless..
Added thought is if there was a written test I would be a white belt
Added thought is if there was a written test I would be a white belt
Edited 5 year(s) ago
KLBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Somebody on here described a belt test where he was asked to recite his BJJ lineage while exhausted mid-roll. I think we could turn it up a notch and have students writing essays about the virtuous nature of jiu-jitsu while getting beat up by upper belts. Handwriting part of the assessment criteria.
I think you’re onto something here, maybe we could do the “walking the gauntlet” as part of a belt test and while everyone is wiping them with their belts they have to explain how different systems in Jiujitsu work.
JMBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
In BJJ you just have to stay alive.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I think you have to stay alive and to some degree somewhat active in the sport. Coaching or advising or who knows, perhaps in the future simply making meaningful forum posts will qualify. However, I'm not sure just simply staying alive alone grants you a promotion. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, we all know that the color of fabric that ties your uniform closed is irrelevant. Either I can choke you or you can choke me or one of us cuts the other some slack because one of us is old and both of us pretend not to notice and we call that Grace.
TPBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
However, I'm not sure just simply staying alive alone grants you a promotion. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe not from your one-up instructor, if he's old school enough. But it sure as hell does from the IBJJF, as long as you simply pay their fees. (And qualify in a few other aspects.) Then you'll even get a nice certificate from them with your degree on it, which many seem to take as the ultimate proof of legitimacy.
(I'm of course talking only about the black belt degree promotions here.)
(I'm of course talking only about the black belt degree promotions here.)
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Yes sir, not my point at all. My point was that there are different levels within each level. Stripes should not indicate ability, only experience. Martial arts are exactly what the name implies, martial. Military. There are various customs and courtesies in the military, which may seem odd and useless, but that actually serve to inspire and reinforce good order and discipline. Think about the military salute. What purpose does it truly serve? It’s a sign of respect between ranks. Why do judoka bow to one another, or even as they move onto or off the mat? It’s just respect. Respect for the institution, and respect for one another and their respective accomplishments. Becoming a third degree black belt in Jiu-Jitsu is a serious accomplishment. It deserves the simple respect of recognition. In my humble opinion.
Perfect analogy.
LWBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
It's hard isn't it. Many models and behaviours that are perfectly logical in one setting make no sense when scaled up or down. Belts, stripes...etc. When I am at my instructor's academy, whether he is teaching or if he's asked me or any of the other senior belts to teach, we look across the mat and we immediately know people's general skill and grasp of the curriculum we have. When teaching mount escapes, for example, we know who's been through that rotation of the curriculum once vs 8 times. An internal blue belt has gone through the cyclic curriculum x-number of times and has a certain understanding of it. Purple correlates to a higher number etc. That's how it's run at that particular academy. It's not better than others, nor is it worse. When you look at the stripes in that setting, they make sense (to me). They are a symbol of communication of experience between that instructor and those regularly training students.
When I visit another gym, I have full respect for their system and belts but don't pay as much attention to the belts and or stripes. I expect the black belts to have a well-rounded experience of the art they're a black belt in. That's kind of it. If they have stripes, it could indicate to me that their instructor may (or may not) had a particular thought in mind when awarding these stripes. Maybe it was time served. Maybe it was because of a major contribution. Maybe whomever awarded it was not the instructor but a visiting head-honcho who awarded it on the recommendation of the instructor. No idea and I don't really mind or care.
My belt is my belt. It was tied around my waist by someone who knows my journey intimately. They have sparred with me countless times. They have seen me learn. They have seen me teach. They have seen me fail and succeed. That belt communicated something unique and I expect whatever belt or stripe someone else is wearing stands for something similar between the wearer and whomever awarded it.
This is where it all falls apart for me. When someone or an organisation who does NOT have that relation with the practitioner "issues" a belt or a stripe to someone. I am not saying they shouldn't because that's none of my business at all. It just feels like it's such a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of what the belts and stripes are meant to communicate.
Again, this is my own take on it and I don't really mind others having a different opinion on it. Stripes, much like belts, coming from one's own instructor can mean and communicate something. If not, then what even is the point.
When I visit another gym, I have full respect for their system and belts but don't pay as much attention to the belts and or stripes. I expect the black belts to have a well-rounded experience of the art they're a black belt in. That's kind of it. If they have stripes, it could indicate to me that their instructor may (or may not) had a particular thought in mind when awarding these stripes. Maybe it was time served. Maybe it was because of a major contribution. Maybe whomever awarded it was not the instructor but a visiting head-honcho who awarded it on the recommendation of the instructor. No idea and I don't really mind or care.
My belt is my belt. It was tied around my waist by someone who knows my journey intimately. They have sparred with me countless times. They have seen me learn. They have seen me teach. They have seen me fail and succeed. That belt communicated something unique and I expect whatever belt or stripe someone else is wearing stands for something similar between the wearer and whomever awarded it.
This is where it all falls apart for me. When someone or an organisation who does NOT have that relation with the practitioner "issues" a belt or a stripe to someone. I am not saying they shouldn't because that's none of my business at all. It just feels like it's such a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy of what the belts and stripes are meant to communicate.
Again, this is my own take on it and I don't really mind others having a different opinion on it. Stripes, much like belts, coming from one's own instructor can mean and communicate something. If not, then what even is the point.
SBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I think keeping a minimum time between each colour belt and each black belt degree is a good protocol. But keeping a gap of too many years beetween degrees and not checking the performance of the dgree holders is denfiniteley not the best system. Sitting at home doing no Jiu-Jitsu for 5 years and getting my next degree is not what I would like to have. A criteria like being active as coach or having some tests to perfrom should be made with a minimum year of 1/2 years between each degree (in my opinion)
Edited 5 year(s) ago
KOBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Agree. As a 50 year old dude, my black belt vs a 20 yr old world champ doesn't mean that much. But, I train because I love it. The belt and the stripes don't make you, you make it.
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Being a Pancreatic Cancer survivor I do the Purple walk every year in Vegas and 2 years ago received an award for being the longest living survivor and it felt really weird to get an award for living and I kind of feel the same about stripes. I have always been proud of championships I earned but actually feel weird about survival awards
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
...but actually feel weird about survival awards
That's pretty much what black belt degrees are in BJJ.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Survival awards :D
JJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
All rank belts, especially for adults, are silly. Discuss that...
I agree with this. We train because we love it, even though most of us will not be world champs. We train as a therapy that helps us with stress, not to brag to our friends we got a piece of tape. We train to protect ourselves in a worst case scenario, not to match our belts to a new gi. Our culture demands that we show progress, when in truth it would be better served demanding that we enjoy the journey.
That said, I was pretty damn proud of earning my black belt, that damn ego is tough to overcome ;)
That said, I was pretty damn proud of earning my black belt, that damn ego is tough to overcome ;)
