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Why don't Americana's finish?

6 year(s) ago • 17490 views • 81 replies

Jason Demelas
Jason Demelas
Black beltVerified67 forum posts5525/1000
5 year(s) ago
I have found one of the keys to finishing an Americana on good grapplers is to have solid fundamental pressure in your top game.. I have found it to be a solid submission even against good grapplers
Agreed, I caught a fellow black belt last week with one. I ground him out until he got frustrated and brought his arm above his head to avoid the arm bar. Then flattened out on him while I put 2on 1 for the attack. He was stuck and energy spent to fight me off.

I suppose like everything, the timing, situation and energy spent already during the match play their parts whether it’s a feasible attack at the time.

Alexander King-Zhang
Alexander King-ZhangOP
Purple beltVerified661 forum posts2020/400
5 year(s) ago
I actually get the Americana a lot from both side and mount I have found the key to be in both the grip and shoulder isolation
Could you expand this a bit more? I'd be interested in the details of how you isolate it
Al Hemmingsen
Al Hemmingsen
Black belt 1st degreeVerified20 forum posts1490/1000
5 year(s) ago
I'm not sure Americana disappears as much as it becomes a leading move as you become more advanced.

Americana becomes an opening move, which you use to provoke a response.
Opponent extends arm, it leads to straight arm locks
Opponent attempts to rescue arm, it leads to armbar, or head and arm choke positions, or gift wrap and back takes
But all of those outcomes are created by the credible threat of an Americana

Sort of like the cross collar choke from mount. At the beginner level may-be you can catch it on someone directly
An advanced peer will have a strong mount defense. Tight elbows, "T-rex" hands
Putting a hand in the collar can provoke your opponent into moving elbows or hands. That response can create opportunities for follow up attacks
So catching the cross collar choke becomes more rare, but it still is a logical opening move.
Honey Badger
Honey Badger
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified256 forum posts9740/1000
5 year(s) ago
Don't grab the wrist with the hand closest to the head. Suck in the wrist with it, but then cup the wrist with your arm that is under their elbow/tricep. Reinforce it with your other hand, but this makes punching out of it near impossible, no matter how strong they are. They are pulling on their own arm at that point and not your grip strength.
William Frank
William Frank
Brown beltVerified45 forum posts4435/700
5 year(s) ago
Americanas and Kimuras are a a major part of my game (perhaps too much).....my regular training partners know to look for it but I still manage to get it good amount of the time. Some of my partners who I train with more regularly have noticed and began defending it better forcing me to open up my game more and thats something I'd definitely like to do and diversify my game more anyway. As much as I love hitting a kimura or americana when they knows its coming, I just as much enjoy using it as a form of control (more so with the kimura) to open up other submissions or transition opportunities.
Ryan Gabey
Ryan Gabey
Black belt 1st degreeVerified184 forum posts5925/1000
5 year(s) ago
I'm not sure Americana disappears as much as it becomes a leading move as you become more advanced. Americana becomes an opening move, which you use to provoke a response. Opponent extends arm, it leads to straight arm locks Opponent attempts to rescue arm, it leads to armbar, or head and arm choke positions, or gift wrap and back takes But all of those outcomes are created by the credible threat of an Americana Sort of like the cross collar choke from mount. At the beginner level may-be you can catch it on someone directly An advanced peer will have a strong mount defense. Tight elbows, 'T-rex' hands Putting a hand in the collar can provoke your opponent into moving elbows or hands. That response can create opportunities for follow up attacks So catching the cross collar choke becomes more rare, but it still is a logical opening move.
Stated Perfectly!
Joemoplata
Joemoplata
Black belt 4th degreeVerified762 forum posts4065/1000
5 year(s) ago
I have to point out that the title of this thread makes the grammar policeman in me cringe. Let's all please let this drop to the bottom so I don't have to keep seeing the tile.

M'kay? Thanks.
Jorgen Matsi
Jorgen Matsi
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified1773 forum posts17465/1000
5 year(s) ago
I have to say I had forgotten about this thread and came in all excited to read the discussion on "Why don't Americans finish?" :/
James Jones
James Jones
Black beltVerified1310 forum posts6475/1000
5 year(s) ago
The weakest submission but is the most effective at white belt levels.
I stopped using this submission for almost 2 years until recently.

It's all about the set up. If you just go straight for an American your almost never going to get it against a higher belt. It's the set up that allows you to get this submission against upper belts and using the lapels in the process makes it even easier.

Slideyfoot [jun]
Slideyfoot [jun]
Black belt 1st degreeVerified1900 forum posts3635/1000
5 year(s) ago
The weakest submission but is the most effective at white belt levels.
I wouldn't call it the weakest submission. I'd put it in the same class as something like the palm up palm cross choke: everybody learns that early, which also means everybody learns how to defend them early on too. I mentioned him already, but Mike Velotta (he posted earlier in the thread) is a good guy to talk to if you need to be convinced about how effective the americana can be (he still gets them on other black belts).
James Jones
James Jones
Black beltVerified1310 forum posts6475/1000
5 year(s) ago
I wouldn't call it the weakest submission. I'd put it in the same class as something like the palm up palm cross choke: everybody learns that early, which also means everybody learns how to defend them early on too. I mentioned him already, but Mike Velotta (he posted earlier in the thread) is a good guy to talk to if you need to be convinced about how effective the americana can be (he still gets them on other black belts).
You can def get Americans against higher belts. It's all about the set up and the chain of events leading up to it.

I mostly just use them to set up other attacks but you can for sure get them on any belt.
Ryan Gabey
Ryan Gabey
Black belt 1st degreeVerified184 forum posts5925/1000
5 year(s) ago
When are we getting a Mute Button feature? PLEASE PLEASE I need a Mute Button feature.
There is an unsubscribe button at the bottom of the thread. That will stop you from getting notifications on a forum you don’t want to see
Joemoplata
Joemoplata
Black belt 4th degreeVerified762 forum posts4065/1000
5 year(s) ago
There is an unsubscribe button at the bottom of the thread. That will stop you from getting notifications on a forum you don’t want to see
That's not what I want. A mute button would allow me to select people's who's posts don't show up for me at all. Unless it's quoted by someone else.
Slideyfoot [jun]
Slideyfoot [jun]
Black belt 1st degreeVerified1900 forum posts3635/1000
5 year(s) ago
That's not what I want. A mute button would allow me to select people's who's posts don't show up for me at all. Unless it's quoted by someone else.
It would be very useful: I'm a big fan of Mute/Block/Ignore on social media, it's the main thing that makes places like Facebook and reddit bearable. But yeah, I don't think that's how Christian likes to do things, AFAIK, though I wouldn't want to put words in his mouth.
Joemoplata
Joemoplata
Black belt 4th degreeVerified762 forum posts4065/1000
5 year(s) ago
It would be very useful: I'm a big fan of Mute/Block/Ignore on social media, it's the main thing that makes places like Facebook and reddit bearable. But yeah, I don't think that's how Christian likes to do things, AFAIK, though I wouldn't want to put words in his mouth.
It would make it easier to "Be Nice" as I usually like to call BS when I see it. But I guess that's not considered being nice. Character DOESN'T matter here (see how I tied that into the other thread....)
Philip Dunlap
Philip Dunlap
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified1043 forum posts59560/1000
5 year(s) ago
It would make it easier to 'Be Nice' as I usually like to call BS when I see it. But I guess that's not considered being nice. Character DOESN'T matter here (see how I tied that into the other thread....)
Just laugh about it as it's all you can really do
Joemoplata
Joemoplata
Black belt 4th degreeVerified762 forum posts4065/1000
5 year(s) ago
Just laugh about it as it's all you can really do
I hear ya, Phil. I'm doing my best to adapt to the new generation who are more concerned about how they personally feel than how they act towards others. I have to look at things the exact opposite way but clearly, I get wrapped up when someone's being a shittard and want to smash.

Gotta eat my own dog food and understand that there's nothing I can do to stop someone from being a shittard. But can't I at least not be forced to listen to shittardness? Damnit I really want that Mute Button!!!
James Jones
James Jones
Black beltVerified1310 forum posts6475/1000
5 year(s) ago
I hear ya, Phil. I'm doing my best to adapt to the new generation who are more concerned about how they personally feel than how they act towards others. I have to look at things the exact opposite way but clearly, I get wrapped up when someone's being a shittard and want to smash. Gotta eat my own dog food and understand that there's nothing I can do to stop someone from being a shittard. But can't I at least not be forced to listen to shittardness? Damnit I really want that Mute Button!!!
I may be one of the ones you want to mute but I support this idea. But at least create a stats page for muted accounts and have a top 10 of the most muted accounts. Those are the real stats we need.

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