Rules for main forums
- Be nice
- No advertisement
- No events
- No fundraisers
- No topics asking for votes
- Only posts related to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
Most Valuable Beginner Concept...
4 year(s) ago • 1820 views • 56 replies
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
Start from bottom is my advice. How to retain guard, escape pins and bad positions etc. Then you can learn to attack, and last: to throw. If you want to learn takedowns before, join judo or wrestling at the side.
Ya, I agree to a point. I think it depends on why they start training in the first place. To your point I do agree that staying safe and managing space, as highlighted in the video shared by Christian, and can allow you to actually spend time in positions you want to be in.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
The most important concept for beginners, at least in my book, is the understanding of constantly moving up the positional hierarchy. New jiujiteiros don't usually have a lot of success landing submissions, and it can be even tougher for them if they don't understand that your standard subs don't work from bottom top mount, for example. In competition bjj, improving your position begets points. I've had a number of brand new beginners win their divisions simply by moving up the positional ladder, failing on a submission when they get to top or back mount, and then doing it all over again. In an altercation, improving your position begets the ability to avoid getting hit: it's pretty difficult to receive any damage from a strike from an attacker when they're in bottom side control, bottom top mount or back mount. The achievement of these positions gives the victim the option of applying more dangerous strikes, or if it's not appropriate (like with a 'drunk uncle' scenario) then you can choose just to pin and control your assailant. Even if you're all about 'sub only, bro', I think it's rare that anyone submits anybody without first attaining a dominant position, leg locks and buggy chokes excluded lol. But in the case of the former, you still have to find a way to control your opponent's body in order to lock their leg in some sort of way.
That's a good one. I was actually taught that one early on, but I think it was kind of detrimental to my game for a long time. This could be because I'm too literal and/or suck at jiujitsu ;) , but I'd try to rush and not find a clear enough path or way to the next position and I'd give everything up.
I understand what you're saying, but at least for me I would have needed more caveats.
I understand what you're saying, but at least for me I would have needed more caveats.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
Don't try to strangle me when you're in my guard.
hahaha
Me at a tournament to one of my guys trying to Ezekiel choke from closed guard: "What are you doing?! "
*Chokes opponent unconscious"
Me: "Well then....nvm."
Me at a tournament to one of my guys trying to Ezekiel choke from closed guard: "What are you doing?! "
*Chokes opponent unconscious"
Me: "Well then....nvm."
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
I thought that is just what you called bottom mount.
I'm cool with calling that whatever even though I probably won't understand....we'll have a real problem if someone says "side guard" for bottom side control hahaha
Purple beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
hahaha Me at a tournament to one of my guys trying to Ezekiel choke from closed guard: 'What are you doing?! ' *Chokes opponent unconscious' Me: 'Well then....nvm.'
There's always some guy that can make it work, but for the most part arm bars or sweeps ensue.
Brown beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
Slow down.
I teach fundamentals 2 nights a week at my gym, it's geared towards beginners and white belts. I find that newbs are excited by new techniques and they tend to rush through and skip important steps that make the techniques better. At first I let them do it, because I want them to just get used to movements and vague ideas of position. But as they come to class more I'll work on refining and tightening stuff up.
I explained it to a recent new student like this: If you're in a new neighborhood, it's night, and you're looking for a particular house, you're not going to blow down the streets at 70, you're going to slow down, observe and pay close attention. A new technique is the same way. Drill it slowly first to get it right, then increase speed and pressure until you can do it at real speed.
I think it's valuable to stop them in the middle of a technique to point out their body positioning and what's off, like in side control, beginners tend to have their hips very high, no connection to the opponents body, stuff like that., but they don't realize it until it's pointed out.
I teach fundamentals 2 nights a week at my gym, it's geared towards beginners and white belts. I find that newbs are excited by new techniques and they tend to rush through and skip important steps that make the techniques better. At first I let them do it, because I want them to just get used to movements and vague ideas of position. But as they come to class more I'll work on refining and tightening stuff up.
I explained it to a recent new student like this: If you're in a new neighborhood, it's night, and you're looking for a particular house, you're not going to blow down the streets at 70, you're going to slow down, observe and pay close attention. A new technique is the same way. Drill it slowly first to get it right, then increase speed and pressure until you can do it at real speed.
I think it's valuable to stop them in the middle of a technique to point out their body positioning and what's off, like in side control, beginners tend to have their hips very high, no connection to the opponents body, stuff like that., but they don't realize it until it's pointed out.
Black beltVerified
Black beltVerified
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
LOL the "weak" position reminds of reverse crunch / Hawking which is actually a very strong position.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
LOL the 'weak' position reminds of reverse crunch / Hawking which is actually a very strong position.
I’ve been playing with that position and I have to say that if I’m getting steam rolled, the hawking has helped me survive
Black beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
LOL the 'weak' position reminds of reverse crunch / Hawking which is actually a very strong position.
It is funny, I do see the ressemblance, and I know that your comment is in jest*^^
Crucial differences in the leg and arm positions.
Another key concept is to isolate limbs, or not let limbs get isolated, in the hawking/running man or the Wim baby bridge, your arms and legs are not open and vulnerable like that.
It does point to something interesting in BJJ though; and early concept that might help grasp the big picture at the beginning can sometimes be discarded later.
For example « never expose your back », and actually as you develop there are moments when exposing your back can lead to all sorts of traps and reversals.
* edit : I do not "know", but I assume a good sense of humor, coming from the author of the classic "Hot singles in your area" and "become a collar drag queen-or King or whatever" ^^
Crucial differences in the leg and arm positions.
Another key concept is to isolate limbs, or not let limbs get isolated, in the hawking/running man or the Wim baby bridge, your arms and legs are not open and vulnerable like that.
It does point to something interesting in BJJ though; and early concept that might help grasp the big picture at the beginning can sometimes be discarded later.
For example « never expose your back », and actually as you develop there are moments when exposing your back can lead to all sorts of traps and reversals.
* edit : I do not "know", but I assume a good sense of humor, coming from the author of the classic "Hot singles in your area" and "become a collar drag queen-or King or whatever" ^^
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Brown beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
I am no master, but I do help lower belts, and when they are brand new I do my best to make them understand BJJ and grappling are about control.
If you control more of your opponents body then they control of yours, you are generally in a better position, especially if that position is top position.
If you control more of your opponents body then they control of yours, you are generally in a better position, especially if that position is top position.
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
1- Never enter into a fight you can not win, always choose the weaker opponent: injured, or the one who's doing trial class.
2- when you find the right opponent strike first, by surprise, with no mercy, from the back or when the guy tie his belt and didn't look at you.
3- after getting a flash tap, by following the second rules method, stop the fight and never give him a try for revenge
4- if someone stronger ask you to roll pretend your injured and run away
Those are the" Very Best rules ever for White belt", edited by the founders of the BJJ MASTER JEDI COUNCIL, GMaster Lasu, GMaster Ken and Gmaster Renato Laranja
2- when you find the right opponent strike first, by surprise, with no mercy, from the back or when the guy tie his belt and didn't look at you.
3- after getting a flash tap, by following the second rules method, stop the fight and never give him a try for revenge
4- if someone stronger ask you to roll pretend your injured and run away
Those are the" Very Best rules ever for White belt", edited by the founders of the BJJ MASTER JEDI COUNCIL, GMaster Lasu, GMaster Ken and Gmaster Renato Laranja
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
#1. Step on the mat. Open mind, no ego!
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
#1. Step on the mat. Open mind, no ego!
Why would you step on the mat if you'd have no ego ;) ?
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
Why would you step on the mat if you'd have no ego ;) ?
Thurst for knowledge, that's why I did.
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
Thurst for knowledge, that's why I did.
Thurst for knowledge sounds like a very ego thing to me ;)
(Don't take this too seriously ATM, I'm a psychologist by background, if we want to talk more seriously we need to define "ego" and that's where I was going)
(Don't take this too seriously ATM, I'm a psychologist by background, if we want to talk more seriously we need to define "ego" and that's where I was going)
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
Thurst for knowledge sounds like a very ego thing to me ;) (Don't take this too seriously ATM, I'm a psychologist by background, if we want to talk more seriously we need to define 'ego' and that's where I was going)
I think in this case it's more like, don't take it too seriously, don't be afraid to tap. Enjoy the training and have fun with your team mates.
For me, training is a moment to try new stuffs and to be on bad spots to prepare yourself for competition or serious fight, doesn't mather if loose points or tap 100 times, if it prepare you for the moment you need to archive something
For me, training is a moment to try new stuffs and to be on bad spots to prepare yourself for competition or serious fight, doesn't mather if loose points or tap 100 times, if it prepare you for the moment you need to archive something
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
Thirst for knowledge is just that the desire to aquire knowledge, has nothing to do with ego.
The ego slows the acquiring of knowledge, especially in jiu-jitsu in my opinion.
The ego slows the acquiring of knowledge, especially in jiu-jitsu in my opinion.
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
Thirst for knowledge is just that the desire to aquire knowledge, has nothing to do with ego. The ego slows the acquiring of knowledge, especially in jiu-jitsu in my opinion.
A desire has everything to do with ego. Why do you want to pursue knowledge in the first place?
As you seem to want to talk about it too - please describe or define what is "ego" to you?
As you seem to want to talk about it too - please describe or define what is "ego" to you?
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
I highly disagree, you can have a thirst for knowledge without ego.
Einstein said the ego=1/knowledge i.e. the more knowledge you have the lesser the ego.. it also means, a man with high ego might be a genius (usually not) but he or she is less educated in terms of etiquette and practicality of life, and life around them.
I don't want to talk about it you keep bringing it up. Agree to disagree
Einstein said the ego=1/knowledge i.e. the more knowledge you have the lesser the ego.. it also means, a man with high ego might be a genius (usually not) but he or she is less educated in terms of etiquette and practicality of life, and life around them.
I don't want to talk about it you keep bringing it up. Agree to disagree
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
Think Street. Train Sport. Practice Art. (obviously I will unpack it a bit. But that's what BJJ can be and that's what sets up the best learning curve.)
I love that. It's my jiu jitsu philosophy only you said it way more sophisticated and articulate than I do.
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
I'm doing a lot more teaching these days and I primarily teach concepts. I think the first concept I try to teach is when to push/frame and when to pull.
Black beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
I love that. It's my jiu jitsu philosophy only you said it way more sophisticated and articulate than I do.
I never think street. If people are getting into street fights it's 99% at least partially their own fault.
No one has ever tried to fight me my entire life.
Your personality is your best self defense followed by your decision making skills.
Not putting yourself in bad situations to begin with and then be willing to make fun of yourself or whatever and not have an ego.
Anyone who has been in multiple street fights has issues they need to deal with and self defense is not the solution.
And yes in the once in a million chance you are in a real situation you can't avoid it's great. But let's not act like someone who trained sport for 5+ years can't take care of themselves against someone who's never trained in grappling before. And if they have trained in grappling and noticed some screwed up ears or something then that should lighten the mood anyways.
If your talking about young kids getting bullied that's one thing. If your a grown adult and obsessed with self-defense your best option is to work on yourself mentally.
No one has ever tried to fight me my entire life.
Your personality is your best self defense followed by your decision making skills.
Not putting yourself in bad situations to begin with and then be willing to make fun of yourself or whatever and not have an ego.
Anyone who has been in multiple street fights has issues they need to deal with and self defense is not the solution.
And yes in the once in a million chance you are in a real situation you can't avoid it's great. But let's not act like someone who trained sport for 5+ years can't take care of themselves against someone who's never trained in grappling before. And if they have trained in grappling and noticed some screwed up ears or something then that should lighten the mood anyways.
If your talking about young kids getting bullied that's one thing. If your a grown adult and obsessed with self-defense your best option is to work on yourself mentally.
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Black beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
My question to you is what is a concept that is extremely important to you that you try to emphasize with students?
I keep a list of concepts, but stated in the form of a rule or constraint, as things I should strive to ALWAYS, SOMETIMES, or NEVER do. It's easier to train and deliberately practice that way, and even apply it to certain situations. Obviously, I'll never be 100% successful, but the idea is awareness and trying to be technically as perfect as possible.
Here's a few that I value at the top of the list. Most of these tend to be applicable across the board, in almost every situation, offensively and defensively.
1. NEVER let anyone have inside position - inside position being the space between neck and shoulders, armpit and hips, and behind the knees (based on Chris Paines and defensive BJJ). T-Rex arms, elbows tight to ribs, etc. are all ways some people communicate this, but I find practicing this as a constraint tightens up a lot of techniques, offensively or defensively.
2. NEVER let anyone grab your head - Something everyone knows and is reminded of frequently, but deliberately practicing this I've noticed makes me more proactive and predictive instead of reactive.
3. ALWAYS tap early - If I'm in a situation where my options are to tap or fight it, I tap. By that point, I've made a ton of mistakes already. I'd rather tap and figure out how to not make the earliest mistakes that allowed them to get to the finishing position.
4. ALWAYS fight/break grips (that stop you from doing what you want) - props to Jordan Teaches Jiu-Jitsu on Youtube for this one. Again, deliberately practicing this makes it more predictive than reactive.
5. ALWAYS control the legs - This one is useful, especially when sweeping or guard passing, but also good when in any dominant position. My goal is to at least keep one of their feet from touching the mat. The only way people can generate power to bridge/upa or move, they need to put their feet on the mat. If I stop them from putting their feet down, I limit what they can do.
6. SOMETIMES you should be annoying - one of my favorites. Black belt at my gym dropped this one on me, and said "Annoyed people get mad, and mad people make mistakes." If I'm in a stalemate situation or a lull in action, then just be annoying. Push, pull, frame, move, etc. Do whatever I can, without giving an advantage, to be annoying. It makes people feel like they need to do something, and that usually creates an opening for me to react to.
Here's a few that I value at the top of the list. Most of these tend to be applicable across the board, in almost every situation, offensively and defensively.
1. NEVER let anyone have inside position - inside position being the space between neck and shoulders, armpit and hips, and behind the knees (based on Chris Paines and defensive BJJ). T-Rex arms, elbows tight to ribs, etc. are all ways some people communicate this, but I find practicing this as a constraint tightens up a lot of techniques, offensively or defensively.
2. NEVER let anyone grab your head - Something everyone knows and is reminded of frequently, but deliberately practicing this I've noticed makes me more proactive and predictive instead of reactive.
3. ALWAYS tap early - If I'm in a situation where my options are to tap or fight it, I tap. By that point, I've made a ton of mistakes already. I'd rather tap and figure out how to not make the earliest mistakes that allowed them to get to the finishing position.
4. ALWAYS fight/break grips (that stop you from doing what you want) - props to Jordan Teaches Jiu-Jitsu on Youtube for this one. Again, deliberately practicing this makes it more predictive than reactive.
5. ALWAYS control the legs - This one is useful, especially when sweeping or guard passing, but also good when in any dominant position. My goal is to at least keep one of their feet from touching the mat. The only way people can generate power to bridge/upa or move, they need to put their feet on the mat. If I stop them from putting their feet down, I limit what they can do.
6. SOMETIMES you should be annoying - one of my favorites. Black belt at my gym dropped this one on me, and said "Annoyed people get mad, and mad people make mistakes." If I'm in a stalemate situation or a lull in action, then just be annoying. Push, pull, frame, move, etc. Do whatever I can, without giving an advantage, to be annoying. It makes people feel like they need to do something, and that usually creates an opening for me to react to.
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
I never think street. If people are getting into street fights it's 99% at least partially their own fault. No one has ever tried to fight me my entire life. Your personality is your best self defense followed by your decision making skills. Not putting yourself in bad situations to begin with and then be willing to make fun of yourself or whatever and not have an ego. Anyone who has been in multiple street fights has issues they need to deal with and self defense is not the solution. And yes in the once in a million chance you are in a real situation you can't avoid it's great. But let's not act like someone who trained sport for 5+ years can't take care of themselves against someone who's never trained in grappling before. And if they have trained in grappling and noticed some screwed up ears or something then that should lighten the mood anyways. If your talking about young kids getting bullied that's one thing. If your a grown adult and obsessed with self-defense your best option is to work on yourself mentally.
Another dynamic to think about here is that as larger men we are less likely to be targets. Most people trying to start fights want to fight people they know they can beat (because they are cowards). Women and smaller men have many more aggressive encounters with individuals and they should be able to stand up for themselves. I'm not saying they should pick a fight, but they shouldn't have to just roll over for bullies. By at least keeping street fighting in mind when training you:
1. Give yourself knowledge to help those individuals prepare in the future when you teach them.
2. Allow yourself some overlap with MMA if you ever decide you want to try it or want to train with some of your MMA guys at the gym.
1. Give yourself knowledge to help those individuals prepare in the future when you teach them.
2. Allow yourself some overlap with MMA if you ever decide you want to try it or want to train with some of your MMA guys at the gym.
Black beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
Another dynamic to think about here is that as larger men we are less likely to be targets. Most people trying to start fights want to fight people they know they can beat (because they are cowards). Women and smaller men have many more aggressive encounters with individuals and they should be able to stand up for themselves. I'm not saying they should pick a fight, but they shouldn't have to just roll over for bullies. By at least keeping street fighting in mind when training you: 1. Give yourself knowledge to help those individuals prepare in the future when you teach them. 2. Allow yourself some overlap with MMA if you ever decide you want to try it or want to train with some of your MMA guys at the gym.
Strangely I think the closest I have ever come to fighting someone was in MMA gyms lol to many egos a lot of the time.
Black beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
Not just for beginners, but a concept I push is the difference between training and competing. When in class, use your sparring session to learn something. If you compete, you're not trying to learn, you're trying to win. Easier said than done hence not just for beginners.
We are old school Carlson guys who always competed when sparring. I blame half my injuries for the old school mentality of sparring like it was a competition.
Went to a seminar once many years ago with Rodrigo Medeiros and he had spent a few months with Terrere at his academy. Terrere had drilled this idea into him over their time together rolling. Rodrigo told us use this mentality and to tap often in training, decreasing injuries, learning faster etc. As soon as he finished this speech, Julio Fernandez (Rodrigo's senior) adds, but you still have to go hard and try to win. Old school gonna old school lol. Easier said than done.
We are old school Carlson guys who always competed when sparring. I blame half my injuries for the old school mentality of sparring like it was a competition.
Went to a seminar once many years ago with Rodrigo Medeiros and he had spent a few months with Terrere at his academy. Terrere had drilled this idea into him over their time together rolling. Rodrigo told us use this mentality and to tap often in training, decreasing injuries, learning faster etc. As soon as he finished this speech, Julio Fernandez (Rodrigo's senior) adds, but you still have to go hard and try to win. Old school gonna old school lol. Easier said than done.




