I understand that, but it wasn't the question. The OP asked if lineage was easily verifiable online for the purposes of checking it before voting up a Beltchecker profile. The secondary part of the equation was what I quoted above, which was your lineage should easily be traceable back to someone who is generally accepted as legit. There is nothing I could find easily online that connects Piet and Renato other than Piet's Beltchecker profile and the TFC website, both of which are Piet's word and not acceptable verification even if though they are true. So in the absence of another form of online verification, how does one make that leap and what constitutes generally accepted as legit?

Looks like Piet has tons of photo evidence, which includes a photo of him with Renato and a diploma, ibjjf certificate, more pictures of certificates, preceding promotions, etc. Not sure what other types of online evidence one would need?

You've missed the point, which was that lineage should be verifiable outside of Beltchecker. Anyone can go to a seminar, tournament, do a drop in, or whatever to get a photo with someone. These days those photos are easily modified to appear as anything the user wants them to look like.

You all do realize that the votes and verifications on here are irrelevant, right? They have no merit outside of beltchecker. We are the rats in the lab being observed. 'Social Experiment' Jonah's opinion and those of the rest of us are all irrelevant. Don't take this stuff too seriously. People who are secure in their BJJ belt, lineage and abilities simply do not care about any of this. Go ahead and ask them if you do not believe me. Unless someone is an outright fake, don't invest too much energy and thought into irrelevant things. Makes people seem quite foolish and while it is entertaining it tends to drag people along because they get triggered.

'You might not care about lineage, but you've got a good one, with solid documentation through Beltchecker.' Above comment was posted by Johan when he verified my BeltChecker profile. I have 4 pictures, no competition record, no diplomas and lineage is not listed. Yet somehow Johan thinks I have solid documentation. I'm truly confused.

Your latest promotion has been confirmed on Beltchecker, same with your promoting instructors latest promotion. Leading to Pedro Duarte, who is very well known here up north. So like it or not, the documentation through Beltchecker (through more than just your own profile) is solid. Perhaps 'tis I who is both anxious and lacking coolness and cred, if that's your takeaway from my post. Give it another dump or two and cast your verdict while enjoying my spiritual company! :-)

Well thank you for your kind words. Actually taking yet another dump after eating too much fresh chili. I honestly couldn't make out much from your previous post. Too many fine words for a layman like me.

Now to the important question, beans or no beans in that chili?

Now to the important question, beans or no beans in that chili?

Not a bowl of chili but an actual chili pepper. Something like this:

End result I'm afraid is the same LOL at least for me. What chili's you like and for what sort of food? (Before I get yelled at for making this thread about chilli's and shit)

Today it was panfried salmon, potatoes and salad. Lots of fresh chili on top of that salmon was 👌. By using chili rating of 1-10, I like 5. It is not too over powering, but you can feel it later... They say it is good for blood pressure and cholesterol.

Exactly. In other martial arts there are highly structured “rules”. Ranking up being about politics and brown-nosing. BJJ is not without politics. But at the very least we should tRt to ignore it rather than make it a prerequisite. Just go and train.

Politics was a huge problem in American judo for many years. If you were a life member of USJA in the late 90s, you could claim time in grade and automatically be promoted for a hefty fee. If I had gone that route, I'd be at least 6 dan now, but instead I'm a lowly 4 dan because I wanted my promotions to come from solely from merit and the respect of my peers. The time in grade system in BJJ may avoid some politics, but it seems odd that one can be promoted by just sitting on the sidelines. And the politics just seem to have be moved to other aspects of the art.

Degree/dan ranks at black belt are largely symbolic. If based on merit they would have to be very subjective and based on various intangible criteria.

In judo, at least, they did not used to be largely symbolic at all. Each degree required a very extensive written and physical test and required showing mastery of a particular kata in front of a panel of experts.

Politics was a huge problem in American judo for many years. If you were a life member of USJA in the late 90s, you could claim time in grade and automatically be promoted for a hefty fee. If I had gone that route, I'd be at least 6 dan now, but instead I'm a lowly 4 dan because I wanted my promotions to come from solely from merit and the respect of my peers. The time in grade system in BJJ may avoid some politics, but it seems odd that one can be promoted by just sitting on the sidelines. And the politics just seem to have be moved to other aspects of the art.

'90% are under a second degree' and others are 'not generally recognised'? I'd challenge both of those claims tbh. It's extremely common, especially at elite levels for a student to reach black belt before their coach has been at black belt for 6 years. The IBJJF bureaucracy is bypass by having a 2nd Degree co-sign the form. But there is not doubt over who is promoting the brown belt to black and there is no issue with recognition, among practitioners. Do you recognise Gordon Ryan's black belt? He was promoted by Garry Tonon, then a no degree black belt. Who in turn was promoted by Tom DeBlass (then a 1st degree black belt). Ruatolo brothers didn't spend the required time in any of their ranks. And Mica Galvao was promoted before 19. None of these guys were initially recognised by IBJJF.

As I have recently switched gyms, I decided to see what it took to verify my own current linage. BJJheroes did not list any coach I have trained with or any of their promoting instructors before one of the dirty dozen (Chris Haueter) ... I was surprised they don't list Michael Chapman (owner of Impact, extremely well known in the US West Coast region), someone who has 25+ years on someone like Andrew Wiltse. So I do hope that people actually do make an effort if the connections aren't immediately obvious. That said... My current instructor immediately shows up on several BJJ and MMA related sites, ranging from interviews with BJJ podcasts, guest instruction notes on some gym websites, LinkedIn, competition records, etc... Despite not being one to really put himself out there (he doesn't have a beltchecker profile) and being a small town dojo coach, it was hard to deny he existed. One step back in the lineage chain before him? Michael Chapman. Easy. Same for the gym I went to before that. Could even find a video interview uploaded to youtube from almost 15 years ago. He's easy to find when it comes to content that is pre-Instagram social media era. So I don't think because 'they don't do facebook' is really much of a valid excuse: Especially as I think it raises more questions that a gym DOESN'T have a Facebook or social media presence. Gym before that? He's well known. Not for the best of reasons. But well known. And I have class photos with all 3 of them. One even despite training at his gym for only 2 1/2 months. Time to verify each AND the next step back in each of their lineages? Less than 5 minutes. Total. Step back before that? Most hit the dirty dozen or are just one step further removed from. I want to say 'I hope people do due diligence and make an effort to verify,' but I also have to say 'It shouldn't be hard to verify at all if someone is legit and has a history of training, attending camps, dropping in, competing or teaching anywhere.' So when it comes to the profiles, the onus is on those creating them, obviously, to provide what is needed... and I have yet to meet a single person who wasn't hiding something that couldn't easily find someone else who could verify them and with evidence. I left a gym under bad circumstances and have removed, both from social media and here, my associations and photos from that period. As a white belt 2 years in, I still had plenty more to provide from elsewhere. To use a relatively recent example, I find it astoundingly unbelievable that in 10+ years of training that it usually takes to get a black belt, an instructor couldn't verify his own lineage. Honestly, it seems like it would take more effort to fake something than to simply go train and actually do it.