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Belt fraud alert (blue, purple, brown)

6 year(s) ago • 19755 views • 120 replies

Aris
Aris
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified60 forum posts5180/1000
5 year(s) ago
I'm seriously amazed that people do this in BJJ..... So this is essentially self-promoting oneself to all the color belts. I'm a 9-year purple belt from what is pretty much an old school competition team, and I often have self-doubt about 'owning my rank'. If anything, I secretly wish I could put on a belt one rank lower whenever I visit a tough gym for some occasional porrada. :D The sad & complex thing about the case is that he has convinced a respected instructor to award him the black belt. Which now appears to be a straight from white to black promotion, which I guess could be legit osss in very special circumstances. BUT seems like he has been blatantly lying about his promotion & training history to his instructor. Pathetic. If the instructor would know that he has been led astray, would he stand behind the promotion? Kind of sloppy to not check on these matters. An embarrassing situation to all.
Man. There are some crazy and unbelievable stories I could describe you. This has happened a lot. Some people find ways to trick the Ibjjf as well in the past or probably present, system is good But not perfect, people work around it and found ways to seem legit. In most of this cases it’s from long time ago when the internet wasn’t so big and fast. In most of this cases if you’d ask them when and from whom they got their blue or purple or brown there is no answer and suddenly you see them wear a black belt and even with multiple degrees. Crazy stuff...
One time a guy that still exists today was claiming he was student of a retired Very old professor, I called the guy Couldn’t find him and managed to find a student of his and told me the professor don’t teach anymore and is retired long time ago. Huh lots of stories
Edited 5 year(s) ago
Sean Brandle
Sean Brandle
Black belt 1st degreeVerified236 forum posts1320/1000
5 year(s) ago
The internet was always big enough to catch frauds. We use to show up at the doorstep of fake black belts and make them apologize on camera. The good old days...
Simon Aptel
Simon Aptel
White beltVerified2 forum posts0/0
4 year(s) ago
Hello
I am a student of Georges in GFT Liege. I am a perfect beginner, started BJJ with Georges 2 years ago.
And I am quite shocked about this thread, for multiple reasons.

Looks like there is definetly something wrong in the past promotions of Georges and with what he said. You contacted a lot of peoples Georges mentionned and you never get a good answer about a promotion.
The fact he lied, at least few times, the fact he deleted his account, its not a definitive proof but clearly, something is wrong.
Whats the reasons ? I dont know.

What I know, for sure, is that Georges is a kind guy. We like to train with him, and as a beginner, I learn a lot.
He don't give promotion easily, its not about a checklist for each strip, for blue belt, and so on. Its about personnal progression.

I know there are a lot of fake teachers, with fake belts, who dont know anything about BJJ. But Georges is passionate. He is not the best one, he never said he was.
As a student, when you see someone like Mathias Jardin often coming, you don't ask yourself "is Georges legit ?".
All this story is difficult for me because its not about if I can no longer learn from him, but its about trust.

The last thing I am shocked of, is the fun some of you guys make here about this situation.
Beltchecker Police badge, meme about Liege GFT Students. In some posts I could believe I am reading kids.
But some of you are importants, known BJJ teachers, champions, practicionners. If you want to make thing in the good way, you should think about the studends. Why not contact them ? why not coming ? Why not investigate more to end this story ? why not asking Mathias Jardin to be clear and do something about it ? You prefer make fun about students who will have "non legit belts" in the future ? Really ?

It looks weird, to be honnest.
I think you have one big responsability here.
Isn't that the purpose of this site ? If you just stop when the guy delete his account, then its not the solution.

And me, I dont know what to do.
Edited 4 year(s) ago
R. David Gonzalez
R. David Gonzalez
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4764 forum posts34325/1000
4 year(s) ago
Hello I am a student of Georges in GFT Liege. I am a perfect beginner, started BJJ with Georges 2 years ago. And I am quite shocked about this thread, for multiple reasons. Looks like there is definetly something wrong in the past promotions of Georges and with what he said. You contacted a lot of peoples Georges mentionned and you never get a good answer about a promotion. The fact he lied, at least few times, the fact he deleted his account, its not a definitive proof but clearly, something is wrong. Whats the reasons ? I dont know. What I know, for sure, is that Georges is a kind guy. We like to train with him, and as a beginner, I learn a lot. He don't give promotion easily, its not about a checklist for each strip, for blue belt, and so on. Its about personnal progression. I know there are a lot of fake teachers, with fake belts, who dont know anything about BJJ. But Georges is passionate. He is not the best one, he never said he was. As a student, when you see someone like Mathias Jardin often coming, you don't ask yourself 'is Georges legit ?'. All this story is difficult for me because its not about if I can no longer learn from him, but its about trust. The last thing I am shocked of, is the fun some of you guys make here about this situation. Beltchecker Police badge, meme about Liege GFT Students. In some posts I could believe I am reading kids. But some of you are importants, known BJJ teachers, champions, practicionners. If you want to make thing in the good way, you should think about the studends. Why not contact them ? why not coming ? Why not investigate more to end this story ? why not asking Mathias Jardin to be clear and do something about it ? You prefer make fun about students who will have 'non legit belts' in the future ? Really ? It looks weird, to be honnest. I think you have one big responsability here. Isn't that the purpose of this site ? If you just stop when the guy delete his account, then its not the solution. And me, I dont know what to do.
If your instructor lied about his promotions then you should find another academy to train at.
It is about integrity. I could not trust an instructor that does that.

I'd also like to state that he is not a victim in this drama. Whatever fallout he got from this lie is his own creation and deserved.
Whether you think the jokes were childish or not is irrelevant.

I find it funny that people will defend perpetrators and try to make them out to be the victims of some wrongdoing.

No one that has earned their belts the right way have any explanations to give. Only frauds need them to explain away their deceit.

I myself, like many others, will never be a world champion but every promotion we have ever received was earned the right way and can be confirmed by our promoting instructors.

There are many great instructors in Belgium who have not lied about their belts. They earned them. Find one and train with them if you feel uncomfortable or you can continue to support your current instructor. It is ultimately your choice.

Cheers



Edited 4 year(s) ago
George Jones
George Jones
Black belt 1st degreeVerified85 forum posts15275/1000
4 year(s) ago
I don’t understand why people lie about this stuff. You will be exposed eventually. As for myself, if you have question I will be more than happy to answer it. I have nothing to hide!
Benoit Zenthner
Benoit Zenthner
Black belt 4th degreeVerified518 forum posts12245/1000
4 year(s) ago
Hello Simon,

I can understand that you're shocked by this whole story... i've been teaching in Liege for a few years and George had always being there, he run the oldest gym in the city. As a beginner, you may like to train there and in some way it can be enough to you....
With the evidence of the fake blue, purple and Brown belt promotion.... and the fact that he lies again to Mathias Jardin about his Brown belt to get his Black belt... if Mathias had made some research before he probably wouldn't be involved into something borderline like this.
This is a very sad situation, because you just came on the site, with motivation then you fall on this post and it can broke the whole confidence you had on your instructor... i feel bad for you
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Simon Aptel
Simon Aptel
White beltVerified2 forum posts0/0
4 year(s) ago
If your instructor lied about his promotions then you should find another academy to train at. It is about integrity. I could not trust an instructor that does that. I'd also like to state that he is not a victim in this drama. Whatever fallout he got from this lie is his own creation and deserved. Whether you think the jokes were childish or not is irrelevant. I find it funny that people will defend perpetrators and try to make them out to be the victims of some wrongdoing. No one that has earned their belts the right way have any explanations to give. Only frauds need them to explain away their deceit. I myself, like many others, will never be a world champion but every promotion we have ever received was earned the right way and can be confirmed by our promoting instructors. There are many great instructors in Belgium who have not lied about their belts. They earned them. Find one and train with them if you feel uncomfortable or you can continue to support your current instructor. It is ultimately your choice. Cheers
"IF", yes if.
I dont know both side story, I dont say he is a victim. Actually, the way this forum show this, privates messages, one side opinion (it looks obvious a fair discussion is not possible here. I cant imagine the bashing if Georges decided to answer here.)
Beltchecker want to make a fair system to check things, so then take you responsibility and do it properly. Thats only what I want to say.
By doing so you are making all students potential victims.

I believe, but I dont know, Georges wanted the black belt to have a "legitimate" figure in his school. Like "I have this school since a lot of years, I have no affiliation that can support me, I have no master behind me to help me, my school, to promote us, my prime is past, I will no longer compet, I will never be the best, I have shitty health problems, but I just want a black as a passionate teacher, this is all about the picture of a black belt teacher. I guess thats why he ask Brasa and thats why he quit after he understood he will never be able to get support from them anymore.
I can understand its not the cleanest way, but I can understand him too. Can we piss on him for that ?
And I believe, if Mathias Jardin gave it to him, without hesitating, then Georges is in some way a legit black belt.

This is my last message here.
I see Daniël Bertina dont find the interest to reply me.
What a super cop.... eh.
Benoit Zenthner
Benoit Zenthner
Black belt 4th degreeVerified518 forum posts12245/1000
4 year(s) ago
'IF', yes if. I dont know both side story, I dont say he is a victim. Actually, the way this forum show this, privates messages, one side opinion (it looks obvious a fair discussion is not possible here. I cant imagine the bashing if Georges decided to answer here.) Beltchecker want to make a fair system to check things, so then take you responsibility and do it properly. Thats only what I want to say. By doing so you are making all students potential victims. I believe, but I dont know, Georges wanted the black belt to have a 'legitimate' figure in his school. Like 'I have this school since a lot of years, I have no affiliation that can support me, I have no master behind me to help me, my school, to promote us, my prime is past, I will no longer compet, I will never be the best, I have shitty health problems, but I just want a black as a passionate teacher, this is all about the picture of a black belt teacher. I guess thats why he ask Brasa and thats why he quit after he understood he will never be able to get support from them anymore. I can understand its not the cleanest way, but I can understand him too. Can we piss on him for that ? And I believe, if Mathias Jardin gave it to him, without hesitating, then Georges is in some way a legit black belt. This is my last message here. I see Daniël Bertina dont find the interest to reply me. What a super cop.... eh.
I don't remember who but one of the beltchecker member was talking about his dream to get his Black belt one day, with age coming up and injuries... every belt represent something special when you have to sweet, bleed and sometimes cry, to get it... so you might understand that this case shock also average praticioners who follow the rules and train daily but must wait as usual to be promoted...and the fact about being a black belt to be legit as a teacher... become legit start with the first belt not the last one... it is kind of insultant to think about wearing a Black belt just to look good on instagram.
In this situation he was better to make a grappling school. No belt, no problem.
Drew Brunning
Drew Brunning
Black beltVerified235 forum posts3190/1000
4 year(s) ago
Can we piss on him for that?
Demonstrably, yes. There is literally nothing to be gained about lying about this. There are myriad ways to have a "legitimate" figure. BJJ belts are one way; Luta Livre belts, judo belts, wrestling coaching credentials, or even just saying "I don't have a recognized rank in BJJ, but I've been grappling since {year}" are all other ways if it's just a question of having your school be taken seriously. The only things having a BJJ black belt lets you do is give other people BJJ belts and sign their paperwork for competitions (and even that is only for IBJJF generally). If it's that he explicitly wants to give out BJJ belts and sign IBJJF paperwork, then spending the time at the lower belts under someone who will verify them to make that happen is the cost of admission.
Olivier Hennau
Olivier Hennau
Black belt 1st degreeVerified219 forum posts6675/1000
4 year(s) ago
I don't remember who but one of the beltchecker member was talking about his dream to get his Black belt one day, with age coming up and injuries... every belt represent something special when you have to sweet, bleed and sometimes cry, to get it... so you might understand that this case shock also average praticioners who follow the rules and train daily but must wait as usual to be promoted...and the fact about being a black belt to be legit as a teacher... become legit start with the first belt not the last one... it is kind of insultant to think about wearing a Black belt just to look good on instagram. In this situation he was better to make a grappling school. No belt, no problem.
100%

20 years of grappling,16 years of teaching it,i left ICON team because of internal feud so, bjj brown belt for life i guess :-D

i got no affiliation nor black belt to put one on my waist, just like him .... but i still don't lye ...

Edited 4 year(s) ago
Benoit Zenthner
Benoit Zenthner
Black belt 4th degreeVerified518 forum posts12245/1000
4 year(s) ago
100% 20 years of grappling,16 years of teaching it,i left ICON team because of internal feud so, bjj brown belt for life i guess :-D i got no affiliation nor black belt to put one on my waist, just like him .... but i still don't lye ...
Olivier you must come one's to train with us ;-)
As i all says, there are possibilities to help people, if you're lonely or you need help, nowadays it is really easy to find help. But for sure the instructor want to know where he would step before giving something. It work both side.
Timo Rissanen
Timo Rissanen
Black beltVerified184 forum posts6150/1000
4 year(s) ago
'IF', yes if. I dont know both side story, I dont say he is a victim. Actually, the way this forum show this, privates messages, one side opinion (it looks obvious a fair discussion is not possible here. I cant imagine the bashing if Georges decided to answer here.) Beltchecker want to make a fair system to check things, so then take you responsibility and do it properly. Thats only what I want to say. By doing so you are making all students potential victims. I believe, but I dont know, Georges wanted the black belt to have a 'legitimate' figure in his school. Like 'I have this school since a lot of years, I have no affiliation that can support me, I have no master behind me to help me, my school, to promote us, my prime is past, I will no longer compet, I will never be the best, I have shitty health problems, but I just want a black as a passionate teacher, this is all about the picture of a black belt teacher. I guess thats why he ask Brasa and thats why he quit after he understood he will never be able to get support from them anymore. I can understand its not the cleanest way, but I can understand him too. Can we piss on him for that ? And I believe, if Mathias Jardin gave it to him, without hesitating, then Georges is in some way a legit black belt. This is my last message here. I see Daniël Bertina dont find the interest to reply me. What a super cop.... eh.
Your teacher has given two different names for the coach who gave him his brown belt. If that is not fishy I don't know what is. If you wake me up in the middle of the night and ask me who gave me my brown belt, I can give the name without hesitation.

He might be a nice guy, but lying about the simple stuff should get you concerned. I couldn't imagine training 7,5 years and getting my brown belt and find out that my teacher is a fraud. Consider yourself lucky that you have only started. Just change gyms and train under a legitimate black belt.

Of course the commenting is one sided, because he deleted his profile as soon as he got caught lying.
Daniël Bertina
Daniël BertinaOP
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified880 forum posts15560/1000
4 year(s) ago
Simon.
Let's clarify something, my man.

Georges was on this site. He had a profile here, and was asking for verification. I heard from a few people, that he might be lying.

I emailed him about this ranks. Then Georges HIMSELF sent me his so-called promotion pictures, and claiming to be belted by these people. I can screenshot the conversation if you want.

The only thing I did, was to e-mail ALL the instructors HE mentioned in his communication to me.
Then I posted this whole debacle, and Georges DELETED his own profile.

Guess what? All of those instructors NEVER even heard of the man. This is not a joke. Marcus Vinicius never heard of him, Josh Griffiths doesn't know who he is, Emmanuel Fernandez didn't promote him.

To put if mildly, the man has a flexible grip on the truth / reality. I actually feel kind of bad for him.

He might be a "nice guy", he might have legitimate health issues - and that sucks and I feel bad for him, but he DID NOT get promoted by the people mentioned above. He is LYING about this. And thus, you might ask yourself: am I okay with training under such an instructor?

If yes, go on, put you head in the sand, and be happy.
If not, go on and find another instructor, and be happy.

Have a great day.

Edited 4 year(s) ago
Vovis
Vovis
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified977 forum posts9215/1000
4 year(s) ago
Simon. Let's clarify something, my man. Georges was on this site. He had a profile here, and was asking for verification. I heard from a few people, that he might be lying. I emailed him about this ranks. Then Georges HIMSELF sent me his so-called promotion pictures, and claiming to be belted by these people. I can screenshot the conversation if you want. The only thing I did, was to e-mail ALL the instructors HE mentioned in his communication to me. Then I posted this whole debacle, and Georges DELETED his own profile. Guess what? All of those instructors NEVER even heard of the man. This is not a joke. Marcus Vinicius never heard of him, Josh Griffiths doesn't know who he is, Emmanuel Fernandez didn't promote him. To put if mildly, the man has a flexible grip on the truth / reality. I actually feel kind of bad for him. He might be a 'nice guy', he might have legitimate health issues - and that sucks and I feel bad for him, but he DID NOT get promoted by the people mentioned above. He is LYING about this. And thus, you might ask yourself: am I okay with training under such an instructor? If yes, go on, put you head in the sand, and be happy. If not, go on and find another instructor, and be happy. Have a great day.
Well said
Murray Mountaineering
Murray Mountaineering
Black belt 1st degreeVerifiedCyprus19 forum posts3370/1000
4 year(s) ago
Hmmm....I get that this is "Beltchecker" and that implies a degree of belt checking, but even in professions as critical as medicine, there is/was a degree of "mediated entry" (grandfathering in of older generation) experts who were acting as specialists and had specialist skills before modern training pathways existed.

Given that the gentleman in question has much experience and a "genuine" promotion to blackbelt, does that hold no water?

BTW, I do understand that faking previous belts muddied the water.
Deepu
Deepu
Black beltVerified547 forum posts6410/1000
4 year(s) ago
Hmmm....I get that this is 'Beltchecker' and that implies a degree of belt checking, but even in professions as critical as medicine, there is/was a degree of 'mediated entry' (grandfathering in of older generation) experts who were acting as specialists and had specialist skills before modern training pathways existed. Given that the gentleman in question has much experience and a 'genuine' promotion to blackbelt, does that hold no water? BTW, I do understand that faking previous belts muddied the water.
We're not exactly checking up on Helio Gracie here.
Philip Dunlap
Philip Dunlap
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified1043 forum posts59560/1000
4 year(s) ago
It still is a relatively small community and i site like this is prone to question something as in a way it is peer reviewed. We communicate with people and names come up. It's one of the things I like about it
Daniël Bertina
Daniël BertinaOP
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified880 forum posts15560/1000
4 year(s) ago
Murray, thanks for your input.

I'm all for people progressing through the ranks in an unorthodox way, or even skipping belts. But ONLY if they are exceptionally skilled practicioners with a wealth of provable skill (usually from other grappling arts).

Travis Stevens (olympic judoka) comes to mind, as does BJ Penn, Saulo Ribeirio, Fredson Paixao (all progressed faster than normal, or skipped belts) and Ray Stevens (UK judo legend, promoted straight to black belt after training with Roger Gracie for a few years).

So, grandfathering in good folks is a good thing.

The gentleman in question is a hobbyist practicioner, like I am myself, like most of us mere mortals. There is no reason why he should be given leeway. And the (needless) lying, I find quite distasteful.

Now, is it possible that the man has actually acchieved the skills to wear a black belt, by now. Of course! He has been training for a long time, under good instructors. But the road he took to get there, i have objections to.
Benoit Zenthner
Benoit Zenthner
Black belt 4th degreeVerified518 forum posts12245/1000
4 year(s) ago
I think that this case is closed now, no need to talk more about it.
The facts are obvious, so if another of his guys come here he will find enough to make his own opinion to decide : staying or leaving.

I'm done with this.
Johan
Johan
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified1401 forum posts11370/1000
2 year(s) ago
If your instructor lied about his promotions then you should find another academy to train at. It is about integrity. I could not trust an instructor that does that. [...] No one that has earned their belts the right way have any explanations to give. Only frauds need them to explain away their deceit. I myself, like many others, will never be a world champion but every promotion we have ever received was earned the right way and can be confirmed by our promoting instructors.
R. David Gonzalez, you wrote in the thread linked below that "If I dispute, it will be on my own terms, without influence". Would the own terms and influence of your younger self suffice? ;-)

https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p;id=63963
Edited 2 year(s) ago
Johan
Johan
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified1401 forum posts11370/1000
2 year(s) ago
First, It's Gonzalez with Z's. Secondly, stop obsessing. It's getting weird.
Jonah humbly apologizes for the spelling. Edited now.

If I'm ever to be accused of weird obsessing, I'm actually quite ok with it being about standing up for BJJ community integrity and well established facts being recognized as such. If Beltchecker fails at that, we're once again left at the mercy of IBJJF as the only (quasi-)reliable global belt registry. Let's rather be weird here :-)

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