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Lasu Rogers sequel thread
5 year(s) ago • 10513 views • 82 replies
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Random thought. Can we have like Globetrotter Super Fights at camps? Or at the least a shark tank. Johan must participate in one super fight back to back for every account he votes negative that should not have been downvoted since the previous camp he visited. If Johan wins all matches then we must support his shenanigans.
Same goes for everyone at the camps who have up voted someone that should not have been up voted (in that case too according to those with a different opinion?), with one super fight for every such vote? Would there really be time for anything more than back to back super fights at the camps?
Can we get back on topic now?
Can we get back on topic now?
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
You had trouble here with people from Europe and USA, at least....so i think that the cultural difference isn't part of the problem. A little introspection can be a good beginning to find where the trouble came from....
You are wrong Johan is right... There are just facts in life that can't be debated .. The sun rises, the sun sets, water is wet and Johan is correct on all promotion criteria
CBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
All I wanted was to see some "legit black belts" wearing socks/shoes on the mats...
JJBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
All I wanted was to see some 'legit black belts' wearing socks/shoes on the mats...
I know a lot of black belts who do that. But I could never personally do that. Feels weird.
I can't even buy socks in a normal store that would fit.
I can't even buy socks in a normal store that would fit.
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
There are other dimensions of culture than just nationalities, but that's an entirely different discussion. Let's get back on topic and discuss socks!
If these were available with eight pre printed degree stripes and a Lasu Couture logo, I might actually myself consider wearing socks when instructing :-)
If these were available with eight pre printed degree stripes and a Lasu Couture logo, I might actually myself consider wearing socks when instructing :-)
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I can't even buy socks in a normal store that would fit.
Still the Beltchecker king of humblebrags ❤️
PZBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
All I wanted was to see some 'legit black belts' wearing socks/shoes on the mats...
Please check out my youtube channel. Don't forget to like and subscribe.
PZBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
Would there really be time for anything more than back to back super fights at the camps?
I think tickets for your super fights would sell out better than the actual classes. People don't understand Priit's jokes anyway and they deserve some entertainment after hours of listening to someone's instruction. I bet Christian can smell some dollar already
JJBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
Still the Beltchecker king of humblebrags ❤️
Not a brag to have hideous flat feet and one toe pointed in the wrong direction. lol
Can't wear boots either.
Can't wear boots either.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
VBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
JL
Black beltPending
2 year(s) ago
Megaton, you asked here https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=34185 'Is this the same Kevin Conan Bankens that was promoted under Randy lasu Rogers' (that promoted Deborah to BB. That was seven months ago, but still no answers from her regarding her lineage. If I understand things correctly, the main coach at her academy Rick Mitchell is also under Kevin Conan Bankens, thus Lasu Rogers lineage (both Deborah and he is featured on https://www.invictusmarti[...]ur-coaches). I just saw one more profile on Beltchecker, Jared T L’esperance (https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=30699), with almost with enough points for a BB verification by now, which is under the same lineage. Can be worth an extra look and some extra thought before voting.
So where to begin? I started my Bjj journey with Red River in March 2014 under Professor Ben Lazano who is under Bruno Bastos. I received my blue belt from him. I then moved to Albuquerque and started training under Professor Rick Mitchell at Invictus who is under Professor Bankens. I have consistently trained 4-5 times a week for the past ten years, no breaks. I have competed locally and have done a few Fight to Wins (1-1 record). My teaching is sound, I make sure I teach fundamentally solid techniques and I am a good leader at my school, I give back more than I take nowadays. I have sacrificed a lot for jiu jitsu. My body, friends, time away from my family, I have quit jobs to continue training. I joined here to fight against mcdojos, not to be a part of a who’s who under lineage. I believe in what Josh McKinny says in his podcast, lineage is mattering less and less everyday. If anyone doubts my technique, or validity or if I’m legit, feel free to come to Invictus and roll with me or join one of my classes. I stand by what I say. So if you want to take away points from my account because of my “lineage” go ahead, that’s not what my journey is about.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
So where to begin? I started my Bjj journey with Red River in March 2014 under Professor Ben Lazano who is under Bruno Bastos. I received my blue belt from him. I then moved to Albuquerque and started training under Professor Rick Mitchell at Invictus who is under Professor Bankens. I have consistently trained 4-5 times a week for the past ten years, no breaks. I have competed locally and have done a few Fight to Wins (1-1 record). My teaching is sound, I make sure I teach fundamentally solid techniques and I am a good leader at my school, I give back more than I take nowadays. I have sacrificed a lot for jiu jitsu. My body, friends, time away from my family, I have quit jobs to continue training. I joined here to fight against mcdojos, not to be a part of a who’s who under lineage. I believe in what Josh McKinny says in his podcast, lineage is mattering less and less everyday. If anyone doubts my technique, or validity or if I’m legit, feel free to come to Invictus and roll with me or join one of my classes. I stand by what I say. So if you want to take away points from my account because of my “lineage” go ahead, that’s not what my journey is about.
I think you're posting in the wrong topic, Jared 🙂
BZBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
So where to begin? I started my Bjj journey with Red River in March 2014 under Professor Ben Lazano who is under Bruno Bastos. I received my blue belt from him. I then moved to Albuquerque and started training under Professor Rick Mitchell at Invictus who is under Professor Bankens. I have consistently trained 4-5 times a week for the past ten years, no breaks. I have competed locally and have done a few Fight to Wins (1-1 record). My teaching is sound, I make sure I teach fundamentally solid techniques and I am a good leader at my school, I give back more than I take nowadays. I have sacrificed a lot for jiu jitsu. My body, friends, time away from my family, I have quit jobs to continue training. I joined here to fight against mcdojos, not to be a part of a who’s who under lineage. I believe in what Josh McKinny says in his podcast, lineage is mattering less and less everyday. If anyone doubts my technique, or validity or if I’m legit, feel free to come to Invictus and roll with me or join one of my classes. I stand by what I say. So if you want to take away points from my account because of my “lineage” go ahead, that’s not what my journey is about.
People who talk about lineage like something above anything else are like people who are proud to show you their wine cave, good for them if they have that luck.... but sometimes they aren't even capable to know the difference between wine and vinegar.
You might be Rickson student, that doesn't mean you have the abilities to level up to his level. Just a brand, like wearing a 350$ gi and think that it will give you super power
You might be Rickson student, that doesn't mean you have the abilities to level up to his level. Just a brand, like wearing a 350$ gi and think that it will give you super power
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I think you're posting in the wrong topic, Jared 🙂
Jared's lineage and it's legitimacy is frankly a bit of a mess but possible to mend, with transparency and patience until instructor Rick Mitchell is formally 2:nd degree or higher.
From what I heard, Rick got a new promotion to BB from a legit senior BB instructor but Rick has not yet reached 2:nd degree other than through the Lasu lineage and timeline. So should then really wait with promoting anyone himself or have a senior BB doing the promotion formally. No one promoted by Rick has yet provided the legit lineage and timeline though, so difficult then to review belt claims.
On the other hand, does it matter to you with a verified BB in BJJ if lineages don't matter at all? I can namedrop several epic grapplers who have no degree at all in BJJ but can never the less develop fantastic students. While I still wouldn't recognize their students as formally legit BB:s (although I could very well conclude that they are at high BB level if sparring with them). But BB level and formally legit BB with legit and well documented lineage is not the same thing.
From what I heard, Rick got a new promotion to BB from a legit senior BB instructor but Rick has not yet reached 2:nd degree other than through the Lasu lineage and timeline. So should then really wait with promoting anyone himself or have a senior BB doing the promotion formally. No one promoted by Rick has yet provided the legit lineage and timeline though, so difficult then to review belt claims.
On the other hand, does it matter to you with a verified BB in BJJ if lineages don't matter at all? I can namedrop several epic grapplers who have no degree at all in BJJ but can never the less develop fantastic students. While I still wouldn't recognize their students as formally legit BB:s (although I could very well conclude that they are at high BB level if sparring with them). But BB level and formally legit BB with legit and well documented lineage is not the same thing.
JL
Black beltPending
2 year(s) ago
My professor Rick Mitchell has a legitimate 2nd degree certificate from Edmilson Alves. He has no interest in joining belt checker nor having to defend his lineage. To quote him and this is strictly him, he said “To verify this d**k.” lol
Edited 2 year(s) ago
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
My professor Rick Mitchell has a legitimate 2nd degree certificate from Edmilson Alves. He has no interest in joining belt checker nor having to defend his lineage. To quote him and this is strictly him, he said “To suck my d**k.” lol
Who was Rick's 0:th degree BB from and when? Non-legit brown to black promotion followed by 1:st and 2:nd degree from someone legit is not recognized as legit by all members (I personally dispute those degrees).
Hopefully all can at least agree that transparency is a good thing on Beltchecker, even those who verify "laundered" BB:s with time served counted from a promotion date under a non-legit 2:nd degree or higher BB.
Hopefully all can at least agree that transparency is a good thing on Beltchecker, even those who verify "laundered" BB:s with time served counted from a promotion date under a non-legit 2:nd degree or higher BB.
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Seems that Rick himself has confirmed that his time served for 2:nd degree BB was counted from the date of his BB from a non-legit lineage BB (Conan Bankens, who got his BB from non-legit Lasu Rogers).
At a date after Rick gave you BB, he wrote on FB that his own BB (around 8 years ago) was from Conan Bankens. So his non-legit lineage BB was as of February this year still not replaced by a later date legit lineage BB, from which time served towards 2:nd degree could be counted.
As previously concluded, you can do it like that, but you and future generations in the lineage will then have degrees which won't be universally recognized in the community. Better sooner than later realizing if you have such a lineage and go get a legit lineage BB, if it's importan to you with wide recognition of the degree of you and your students (and their future students and so on). If you just care about kicking a** on the mat, just don't give a damn and you can even wear the Beltchecker's rainbow belt!
https://www.facebook.com/[...]KwBWcvPWdl
At a date after Rick gave you BB, he wrote on FB that his own BB (around 8 years ago) was from Conan Bankens. So his non-legit lineage BB was as of February this year still not replaced by a later date legit lineage BB, from which time served towards 2:nd degree could be counted.
As previously concluded, you can do it like that, but you and future generations in the lineage will then have degrees which won't be universally recognized in the community. Better sooner than later realizing if you have such a lineage and go get a legit lineage BB, if it's importan to you with wide recognition of the degree of you and your students (and their future students and so on). If you just care about kicking a** on the mat, just don't give a damn and you can even wear the Beltchecker's rainbow belt!
https://www.facebook.com/[...]KwBWcvPWdl
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Your view on lineage is a dying belief.
Jared,
My view on lineage is that you can be at the same level as someone with a legit lineage even though you don't have a legit lineage. It's the skills and knowledge you have which is the skills and knowledge you have, regardless of lineage (or formal belt legitimacy based on the most commonly used formal criteria). Just as I believe programmers without formal university degrees (usually then not claiming to have one) can prove to be as good as someone with a legit formal degree in computer science or similar.
I'm sorry to hear that's a dying belief, but if you say so.
My view on lineage is that you can be at the same level as someone with a legit lineage even though you don't have a legit lineage. It's the skills and knowledge you have which is the skills and knowledge you have, regardless of lineage (or formal belt legitimacy based on the most commonly used formal criteria). Just as I believe programmers without formal university degrees (usually then not claiming to have one) can prove to be as good as someone with a legit formal degree in computer science or similar.
I'm sorry to hear that's a dying belief, but if you say so.
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Yes it is hard to overcome a tainted lineage.
As time has gone by it has become apparent the the Gracies NEVER trained with Maeda and possibly might not even have met him at all. The whole story of the father knowing him and asking him to train his kids was absolute BS. This makes the idea of Lineage in BJJ a fraudulent concept at the inception
As time has gone by it has become apparent the the Gracies NEVER trained with Maeda and possibly might not even have met him at all. The whole story of the father knowing him and asking him to train his kids was absolute BS. This makes the idea of Lineage in BJJ a fraudulent concept at the inception
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Yes it is hard to overcome a tainted lineage. As time has gone by it has become apparent the the Gracies NEVER trained with Maeda and possibly might not even have met him at all. The whole story of the father knowing him and asking him to train his kids was absolute BS. This makes the idea of Lineage in BJJ a fraudulent concept at the inception
I too believe that part of (almost) all our lineages is more marketing than relevant, or entirely (at all?) true for that matter. So that too is part of those dying lineage beliefs of mine, so I'm sorry to say but you too then have dying beliefs, Philip.
As I wrote in the LONGEST LINEAGE ON BELTCHECKER? thread,
"No cheating including lineage before Maeda or for that matter putting Jacyntho Ferro between Maeda and Gracie (true as it may be : -)"
I have been very transparent about those beliefs of mine though and that I implicitly recognize that when reviewing lineages. So I won't down vote anyone any time soon on grounds of lacking support of the pre Gracie lineage. Entertaining as it would be to some members :-)
As I wrote in the LONGEST LINEAGE ON BELTCHECKER? thread,
"No cheating including lineage before Maeda or for that matter putting Jacyntho Ferro between Maeda and Gracie (true as it may be : -)"
I have been very transparent about those beliefs of mine though and that I implicitly recognize that when reviewing lineages. So I won't down vote anyone any time soon on grounds of lacking support of the pre Gracie lineage. Entertaining as it would be to some members :-)
BZBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I too believe that part of (almost) all our lineages is more marketing than relevant, or entirely (at all?) true for that matter. So that too is part of those dying lineage beliefs of mine, so I'm sorry to say but you too then have dying beliefs, Philip. As I wrote in the LONGEST LINEAGE ON BELTCHECKER? thread, 'No cheating including lineage before Maeda or for that matter putting Jacyntho Ferro between Maeda and Gracie (true as it may be : -)' I have been very transparent about those beliefs of mine though and that I implicitly recognize that when reviewing lineages. So I won't down vote anyone any time soon on grounds of lacking support of the pre Gracie lineage. Entertaining as it would be to some members :-)
If you admit that lineage isn't really honest since the creation... why did you still downvote true praticioners based on their lineage ?
For me, if the ranked person is active on event, compete, exchange with others gyms, where people can see how good they are. It is more relevant than a lineage.
McDojo are not open minded, never go at seminar, avoid competitions,... those kind of sign might warning people, but when i see some profile with the right time in practice, who got competitions fights, and a lot of pictures traveling, it is quitte easy to check, in my point of view...i almost never look at lineage...
For me, if the ranked person is active on event, compete, exchange with others gyms, where people can see how good they are. It is more relevant than a lineage.
McDojo are not open minded, never go at seminar, avoid competitions,... those kind of sign might warning people, but when i see some profile with the right time in practice, who got competitions fights, and a lot of pictures traveling, it is quitte easy to check, in my point of view...i almost never look at lineage...
DBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
Doesn't the fact that it takes a second degree (or is it third now, I forget) black belt to promote a black belt automatically enforce lineage requirements?
Lineage has been ingrained in martial arts from the very beginning. Until we lose our belts and turn into a full sport like wrestling, lineage will always be around.
Also, since this site is beltchecker.com, not skillchecker.com, lineage is therefore inherently a factor. Q.E.D :P
Lineage has been ingrained in martial arts from the very beginning. Until we lose our belts and turn into a full sport like wrestling, lineage will always be around.
Also, since this site is beltchecker.com, not skillchecker.com, lineage is therefore inherently a factor. Q.E.D :P
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
If you admit that lineage isn't really honest since the creation... why did you still downvote true praticioners based on their lineage ? For me, if the ranked person is active on event, compete, exchange with others gyms, where people can see how good they are. It is more relevant than a lineage. McDojo are not open minded, never go at seminar, avoid competitions,... those kind of sign might warning people, but when i see some profile with the right time in practice, who got competitions fights, and a lot of pictures traveling, it is quitte easy to check, in my point of view...i almost never look at lineage...
Getting of topic in this thread, but Beltchecker implies checking of belt (more precisely belts in BJJ, is stated). Implying there is such a thing as BJJ and something checkable with the belts of BJJ.
So what is BJJ? When my own instructor started training in the early 80:s, it was just "jiu-jitsu" and even though we've all seen the "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy - Est. 1925" logo, I don't think it's just me doubting that they really considered it a separate kind of jiu-jitsu back then. And some of the most important innovators for really separating it from e.g. judo ne-waza were younger generations who were active in the 50:s to 70:s (Carlson, Rolls etc.). While there was also convergent evolution going on with e.g. judoka Gene LeBell being a good example whose judo it is more difficult to claim that BJJ was a separate martial art from. Early 90:s, we also had the World Championships in Jiu-Jitsu (not BJJ) in Copenhagen with quite a few Brazilians competing (and co arranging the whole competition?), years before the first BJJ mundials.
It also didn't matter as much to position it as an entirely different jiu-jitsu/judo until the marketing success of Gracies in action and UFC in the early 90:s, where Gracie Jiu-Jitsu was often used even for non Gracie BJJ, until all the drama with different actors had started to settle and it was more established as a protected trademark, and there was really a need for the non Gracie jiu-jitsu schools to call it something else which still had the connotations of being a unique martial art. Which I think was in the mid 90:s. So in some ways, you could claim BJJ as an explicitly separate martial art is not much more than 30 years old. If my memories from those days serve me right.
So with the premiss of it not being very safe to say it was recognized or claimed to be it's own martial art before mid 90:s, I personally am fine settling with connecting lineages to those who at that point in time were obvious authorities in the sport. By then or not long after that, the belt rank standards that are most common still today were established. A little wild west still during the 90:s and even early 00:s but not total anarchy, so the further down the line from mid 90:s, the more strict I am looking at lineages. No matter the skills, I don't recognize any new lineages which didn't exist mid 90:s or doesn't have an unbroken connection to someone widely recognized as a BJJ authority (with lineage) already then).
Yes, that means that even if someone like Karelin, Sakuraba (honorary BJJ BB:s don't count) or GeneLeBell etc. had started an entirely new BJJ lineage after that, I wouldn't recognize it as being the martial art BJJ and thus not promotions by them either. I would recognize their skill though and it possibly being indistinguishable from BJJ in competition under equal rule sets.
So that's my basic postulates (as in ideas or theories I suggest that they are true, especially for the purposes of an argument or discussion). I simply mean that we must have our postulates or it's meaningless to speak about BJJ as it's own martial art with it's own belt system. We might not all have the same. Must is perhaps the wrong word. Of course anyone is free to make up their own mind and I know many have a more liberal and anarchistic view, where they don't like to make any postulates like that but rather settle with something like "if you say it's BJJ and you kick ass on the mat, it's BJJ" (hmm, isn't that too a postulate on the other hand?).
A bit similar to calling something whisky/whiskey (a bit simplified below). In the US, you have whiskey made from corn, which really wouldn't be considered whisky in Europe (well, could still be called American whiskey). In Scotland, they wouldn't call it (Scotch) whisky unless it was made from barley and aged at least three years in an oak cask. There are other places in the world where it can be called whisky even if it's only aged two years or perhaps in a cask made from chestnut wood. It can be fantastic whisky and (at least for me) indistinguishable from being a Scotch whisky. But I would still object to anyone claiming it's a Scotch whisky. Oh, I just think I'll end with "And I would be very right!", just because it provokes someone ;-P
So what is BJJ? When my own instructor started training in the early 80:s, it was just "jiu-jitsu" and even though we've all seen the "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy - Est. 1925" logo, I don't think it's just me doubting that they really considered it a separate kind of jiu-jitsu back then. And some of the most important innovators for really separating it from e.g. judo ne-waza were younger generations who were active in the 50:s to 70:s (Carlson, Rolls etc.). While there was also convergent evolution going on with e.g. judoka Gene LeBell being a good example whose judo it is more difficult to claim that BJJ was a separate martial art from. Early 90:s, we also had the World Championships in Jiu-Jitsu (not BJJ) in Copenhagen with quite a few Brazilians competing (and co arranging the whole competition?), years before the first BJJ mundials.
It also didn't matter as much to position it as an entirely different jiu-jitsu/judo until the marketing success of Gracies in action and UFC in the early 90:s, where Gracie Jiu-Jitsu was often used even for non Gracie BJJ, until all the drama with different actors had started to settle and it was more established as a protected trademark, and there was really a need for the non Gracie jiu-jitsu schools to call it something else which still had the connotations of being a unique martial art. Which I think was in the mid 90:s. So in some ways, you could claim BJJ as an explicitly separate martial art is not much more than 30 years old. If my memories from those days serve me right.
So with the premiss of it not being very safe to say it was recognized or claimed to be it's own martial art before mid 90:s, I personally am fine settling with connecting lineages to those who at that point in time were obvious authorities in the sport. By then or not long after that, the belt rank standards that are most common still today were established. A little wild west still during the 90:s and even early 00:s but not total anarchy, so the further down the line from mid 90:s, the more strict I am looking at lineages. No matter the skills, I don't recognize any new lineages which didn't exist mid 90:s or doesn't have an unbroken connection to someone widely recognized as a BJJ authority (with lineage) already then).
Yes, that means that even if someone like Karelin, Sakuraba (honorary BJJ BB:s don't count) or GeneLeBell etc. had started an entirely new BJJ lineage after that, I wouldn't recognize it as being the martial art BJJ and thus not promotions by them either. I would recognize their skill though and it possibly being indistinguishable from BJJ in competition under equal rule sets.
So that's my basic postulates (as in ideas or theories I suggest that they are true, especially for the purposes of an argument or discussion). I simply mean that we must have our postulates or it's meaningless to speak about BJJ as it's own martial art with it's own belt system. We might not all have the same. Must is perhaps the wrong word. Of course anyone is free to make up their own mind and I know many have a more liberal and anarchistic view, where they don't like to make any postulates like that but rather settle with something like "if you say it's BJJ and you kick ass on the mat, it's BJJ" (hmm, isn't that too a postulate on the other hand?).
A bit similar to calling something whisky/whiskey (a bit simplified below). In the US, you have whiskey made from corn, which really wouldn't be considered whisky in Europe (well, could still be called American whiskey). In Scotland, they wouldn't call it (Scotch) whisky unless it was made from barley and aged at least three years in an oak cask. There are other places in the world where it can be called whisky even if it's only aged two years or perhaps in a cask made from chestnut wood. It can be fantastic whisky and (at least for me) indistinguishable from being a Scotch whisky. But I would still object to anyone claiming it's a Scotch whisky. Oh, I just think I'll end with "And I would be very right!", just because it provokes someone ;-P
