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Giving stripes
2 year(s) ago • 2657 views • 59 replies
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
It's like putting tape on your assault rifle. May look cool, but doesn't really mean anything. :D
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
It's like putting tape on your assault rifle. May look cool, but doesn't really mean anything. :D
You have conscription in Finland too, so don't you put white tape on your assault rifles during winter? It means a lot for camouflage :-)
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Best idea I've come across is from Wim Deputter.
Only stripe a white belt. This is purely to keep the beginners motivated.
When they're a blue belt, they are old enough to put on their big boy pants and just suffer & improve without external validation.
Only stripe a white belt. This is purely to keep the beginners motivated.
When they're a blue belt, they are old enough to put on their big boy pants and just suffer & improve without external validation.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
You have conscription in Finland too, so don't you put white tape on your assault rifles during winter? It means a lot for camouflage :-)
Nope. No tape. We use a net-like fabric.
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Best idea I've come across is from Wim Deputter. Only stripe a white belt. This is purely to keep the beginners motivated. When they're a blue belt, they are old enough to put on their big boy pants and just suffer & improve without external validation.
So why would the big boys need colored belts? Or Wim need stripes on his black? The too-cool-to-stripe/be-striped arguments fall kind of short :-)
Black beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
I know a then purple belt who got awarded a fifth stripe. Talk about an awkward lineup after the coach realized his mistake.
Why go back and forth on the "issue"? Some give stripes and others don't. Nothing wrong with either approach.
Why go back and forth on the "issue"? Some give stripes and others don't. Nothing wrong with either approach.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
You have conscription in Finland too, so don't you put white tape on your assault rifles during winter? It means a lot for camouflage :-)
Nope. No tape. We use a net-like fabric.
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Nope. No tape. We use a net-like fabric.
Colored/painted jute fabric? To facilitate weapon care and frequent inspections, we saved that for special occasions and sniper rifles.
Perhaps stripes of loose jute would be something to add as a special kind of stripes, for all the sneaky ninja chokers out there. You can't block a choker you can't see! At least then you must agree that the stripes would mean a lot! :-)
Perhaps stripes of loose jute would be something to add as a special kind of stripes, for all the sneaky ninja chokers out there. You can't block a choker you can't see! At least then you must agree that the stripes would mean a lot! :-)
Brown beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
I find three types who have an issue giving stripes to adults and are constantly saying that people should not worry about belts.
1. Higher ranks who have the “I had to walk 30 miles through the snow with no shoes to get to school” attitude even though BJJ is the most participation trophy sport known to man.
2. The person who does not believe they will get promoted any time soon. Maybe they switched schools or missed blocks of time and have been a blue belt for seven years. It is always, “You should train because of the Samurai Spirit!”
3. The people who are scared to get promoted because they feel that they will get judged if they get tapped by a lower belt. They are attempting to diminish from other peoples’ accomplishments.
1. Higher ranks who have the “I had to walk 30 miles through the snow with no shoes to get to school” attitude even though BJJ is the most participation trophy sport known to man.
2. The person who does not believe they will get promoted any time soon. Maybe they switched schools or missed blocks of time and have been a blue belt for seven years. It is always, “You should train because of the Samurai Spirit!”
3. The people who are scared to get promoted because they feel that they will get judged if they get tapped by a lower belt. They are attempting to diminish from other peoples’ accomplishments.
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I don't give stripes, but a lot of the black belts that I promoted, and have their own schools now, do.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Anybody have any reliable info on who started the whole stripe thing? Was it an individual or federation?
I'd imagine that black belts were the first to receive stripes, and then someone decided to give out stripes to non-bb's after that, but perhaps I'm wrong.
When I received my blue belt in '08, it didn't even have a ranking bar on it...
Anyway, just curious!
I'd imagine that black belts were the first to receive stripes, and then someone decided to give out stripes to non-bb's after that, but perhaps I'm wrong.
When I received my blue belt in '08, it didn't even have a ranking bar on it...
Anyway, just curious!
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Just like the military, we have a system of visual identification of someone’s rank, skills and accomplishments.
What?
You lost me on the extreme tactical, even though I can see your point, in the supreme abstract.
Then again, I have never been a fan of Platonic forms.
Although, yes, yes, I love, and have my students read Plato's Allegory of the Cave.
You lost me on the extreme tactical, even though I can see your point, in the supreme abstract.
Then again, I have never been a fan of Platonic forms.
Although, yes, yes, I love, and have my students read Plato's Allegory of the Cave.
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I find three types who have an issue giving stripes to adults and are constantly saying that people should not worry about belts. 1. Higher ranks who have the “I had to walk 30 miles through the snow with no shoes to get to school” attitude even though BJJ is the most participation trophy sport known to man.
It was only two miles,
cutting through a cow field,
and corn field, as the crow flies.
And in the warm months,
We had honeysuckles, sweet in their nectar,
wild blackberries, and wild raspberries,
that grew along side of the paths we walked,
as well as wild scallions, that we ate,
Pulling them out of the ground.
Delicious in their root, or their greens.
While we walked in those warmer months,
and they were better than Halloween bag candy.
And, uh, yeah, I was not thinking about stripes on belts,
In those days, when I walked home, through cowfields,
and corn fields, as the crow flies, from school.
I was worried about bulls, and ticks,
and angry farmers with guns.
I was indeed, not worried about stripes back then,
and nor am I worried about them, now.
cutting through a cow field,
and corn field, as the crow flies.
And in the warm months,
We had honeysuckles, sweet in their nectar,
wild blackberries, and wild raspberries,
that grew along side of the paths we walked,
as well as wild scallions, that we ate,
Pulling them out of the ground.
Delicious in their root, or their greens.
While we walked in those warmer months,
and they were better than Halloween bag candy.
And, uh, yeah, I was not thinking about stripes on belts,
In those days, when I walked home, through cowfields,
and corn fields, as the crow flies, from school.
I was worried about bulls, and ticks,
and angry farmers with guns.
I was indeed, not worried about stripes back then,
and nor am I worried about them, now.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
OT:
Your english is sometimes a challenge for non native speakers.
But this one is quite easy and a really good metaphoric description.
👍🏻
Your english is sometimes a challenge for non native speakers.
But this one is quite easy and a really good metaphoric description.
👍🏻
Purple beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
Anybody have any reliable info on who started the whole stripe thing? Was it an individual or federation? I'd imagine that black belts were the first to receive stripes, and then someone decided to give out stripes to non-bb's after that, but perhaps I'm wrong. When I received my blue belt in '08, it didn't even have a ranking bar on it... Anyway, just curious!
I'd assume that, like the belt system, it didn't start with Jiu Jitsu and in inherited from Judo.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I'd assume that, like the belt system, it didn't start with Jiu Jitsu and in inherited from Judo.
It is not an invention of traditionally Judo as I know.
[In Judo there were no coloured belts at the beginning, too.
It was mudansha and yudansha (students and teaching persons) and they have had white or simple black belts.
Later coloured belts were invented (in Europe) and brought into Judo and back to Japan probably by Kawaishi.
Kano implemeneted these students ranks in Judo and other martial arts copied it.]
Even the different coloured ranks of yudansha (pure black, red and white and red) were only introduced in the 30´s of last century.
I would assume that stripes on a BB are adapted from Karate or Korean martial arts like Tae kwon do or something like that.
[In Judo there were no coloured belts at the beginning, too.
It was mudansha and yudansha (students and teaching persons) and they have had white or simple black belts.
Later coloured belts were invented (in Europe) and brought into Judo and back to Japan probably by Kawaishi.
Kano implemeneted these students ranks in Judo and other martial arts copied it.]
Even the different coloured ranks of yudansha (pure black, red and white and red) were only introduced in the 30´s of last century.
I would assume that stripes on a BB are adapted from Karate or Korean martial arts like Tae kwon do or something like that.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
It is not an invention of traditionally Judo as I know. [In Judo there were no coloured belts at the beginning, too. It was mudansha and yudansha (students and teaching persons) and they have had white or simple black belts. Later coloured belts were invented (in Europe) and brought into Judo and back to Japan probably by Kashiwasaki. Kano implemeneted these students ranks in Judo and other martial arts copied it.] Even the different coloured ranks of yudansha (pure black, red and white and red) were only introduced in the 30´s of last century. I would assume that stripes on a BB are adapted from Karate or Korean martial arts like Tae kwon do or something like that.
Yes, Kano got the idea from "the Cat" from Karate who was an invited guest to teach at the Kodokan.
Maybe "The Cat" borrowed it from China.
But, "The Cat" guest instructing at the Kodokan, and telling Kano about a rank belt system, is as far back as I go on that.
Maybe "The Cat" borrowed it from China.
But, "The Cat" guest instructing at the Kodokan, and telling Kano about a rank belt system, is as far back as I go on that.
Purple beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
It is not an invention of traditionally Judo as I know. [In Judo there were no coloured belts at the beginning, too. It was mudansha and yudansha (students and teaching persons) and they have had white or simple black belts. Later coloured belts were invented (in Europe) and brought into Judo and back to Japan probably by Kashiwasaki. Kano implemeneted these students ranks in Judo and other martial arts copied it.] Even the different coloured ranks of yudansha (pure black, red and white and red) were only introduced in the 30´s of last century. I would assume that stripes on a BB are adapted from Karate or Korean martial arts like Tae kwon do or something like that.
Your assumptions on the origin are incorrect.
Not being in judo does not mean it was not created by Judo. Colour belts were not original for example, but they were still developed by judo first, and from there spread to other martial arts. Dan ranks actually existed before coloured belt ranks in judo. Which is where BJJ degrees come from. Belts and ranks existed in judo long before BJJ or Tae kwon do even existed.
It's common misconception that judo only had black and white ranks. They only had black and white belts, but the concept of kyu and dan ranks were used from the first year of kodokan existing. Kano adopted Kyu and Dan ranks from Go. The first martial art to do so. The various coloured belts were kyu belts were added later, but the concept of kyu/dan was well established in japan for centuries at stage.
Not being in judo does not mean it was not created by Judo. Colour belts were not original for example, but they were still developed by judo first, and from there spread to other martial arts. Dan ranks actually existed before coloured belt ranks in judo. Which is where BJJ degrees come from. Belts and ranks existed in judo long before BJJ or Tae kwon do even existed.
It's common misconception that judo only had black and white ranks. They only had black and white belts, but the concept of kyu and dan ranks were used from the first year of kodokan existing. Kano adopted Kyu and Dan ranks from Go. The first martial art to do so. The various coloured belts were kyu belts were added later, but the concept of kyu/dan was well established in japan for centuries at stage.
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Your assumptions on the origin are incorrect. Not being in judo does not mean it was not created by Judo. Colour belts were not original for example, but they were still developed by judo first, and from there spread to other martial arts. Dan ranks actually existed before coloured belt ranks in judo. Which is where BJJ degrees come from. Belts and ranks existed in judo long before BJJ or Tae kwon do even existed. It's common misconception that judo only had black and white ranks. They only had black and white belts, but the concept of kyu and dan ranks were used from the first year of kodokan existing. Kano adopted Kyu and Dan ranks from Go. The first martial art to do so. The various coloured belts were kyu belts were added later, but the concept of kyu/dan was well established in japan for centuries at stage.
That is an interesting set of claims.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Your assumptions on the origin are incorrect. Not being in judo does not mean it was not created by Judo. Colour belts were not original for example, but they were still developed by judo first, and from there spread to other martial arts. Dan ranks actually existed before coloured belt ranks in judo. Which is where BJJ degrees come from. Belts and ranks existed in judo long before BJJ or Tae kwon do even existed. It's common misconception that judo only had black and white ranks. They only had black and white belts, but the concept of kyu and dan ranks were used from the first year of kodokan existing. Kano adopted Kyu and Dan ranks from Go. The first martial art to do so. The various coloured belts were kyu belts were added later, but the concept of kyu/dan was well established in japan for centuries at stage.
To be correct I did not wrote, that coloured belts were not invented by Judo first in martial arts.
What I wrote is that stripes are not an invention of traditionally Judo.
-And by the way I added that even coloured belts were introduced later.
The existence of kyu and dan ranks under categories of mudansha and yudansha in Judo says nothing about stripes on a belt at all. 🤷♂️
Do You have any sources which prove that stripes are invented by Kano or Judo?!
I am honestly interested in!
What I wrote is that stripes are not an invention of traditionally Judo.
-And by the way I added that even coloured belts were introduced later.
The existence of kyu and dan ranks under categories of mudansha and yudansha in Judo says nothing about stripes on a belt at all. 🤷♂️
Do You have any sources which prove that stripes are invented by Kano or Judo?!
I am honestly interested in!
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I thought the judo belt system was more or less a western system that started in France. The Japanese themselves didnt adopt it untill much later.
Many other arts especially in the West adopted the belt system. Some altered it slightly.
Many other arts especially in the West adopted the belt system. Some altered it slightly.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I thought the judo belt system was more or less a western system that started in France. The Japanese themselves didnt adopt it untill much later.
I don't think this is correct. The black belt was based on a black ribbon awarded to expert swimmers in Japan at the time.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I'd assume that, like the belt system, it didn't start with Jiu Jitsu and in inherited from Judo.
When our judo club first started, our original instructor didn't award colored belts for the kyu ranks, but, rather, added stripes on your white belt until third kyu (brown belt in the US system).
This is the belt we were to wear in the gym, but would otherwise wear the standard corresponding color belt ranks when visiting other gyms or competing.
Furthermore, when I received my 3rd kyu (brown belt) it was awarded with 2 stripes; one stripe would be taken OFF the belt each time I advanced rank.
This is the belt we were to wear in the gym, but would otherwise wear the standard corresponding color belt ranks when visiting other gyms or competing.
Furthermore, when I received my 3rd kyu (brown belt) it was awarded with 2 stripes; one stripe would be taken OFF the belt each time I advanced rank.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
This is a well respected source and the article is written by an undisputed specialist of japanese martial arts, Donn Draeger:
https://judoinfo.com/ranks/
As I understand all the belts are not an ancient system nor colored belts neither black belts.
Judo had a pioneer’s role to implement first black belts for teaching persons and later colored belts for the classes (kyu).
But stripes were still not mentioned at all.
https://judoinfo.com/ranks/
As I understand all the belts are not an ancient system nor colored belts neither black belts.
Judo had a pioneer’s role to implement first black belts for teaching persons and later colored belts for the classes (kyu).
But stripes were still not mentioned at all.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I don't think this is correct. The black belt was based on a black ribbon awarded to expert swimmers in Japan at the time.
I didnt mean the belts, but i meant the current system with yellow Orange green blue Brown Black belts. Some teams doing half belts for Kids or stripes.
Purple beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
That is an interesting set of claims.
I'd have thought it was quite common knowledge to anyone who knows the history of judo and the kyu/dan system.
Purple beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
To be correct I did not wrote, that coloured belts were not invented by Judo first in martial arts. What I wrote is that stripes are not an invention of traditionally Judo. -And by the way I added that even coloured belts were introduced later. The existence of kyu and dan ranks under categories of mudansha and yudansha in Judo says nothing about stripes on a belt at all. 🤷♂️ Do You have any sources which prove that stripes are invented by Kano or Judo?! I am honestly interested in!
I am you didn't claim that coloured belts were not invented by judo. You referenced referenced colours belts be created by european judo. I was using that to highlight "not originally in judo" does not mean not created by judo.
The incorrect assumptions I mentioned was referring to the idea that degreed ranks came from TKD or somewhere.
Kano was the first to adopt into martial arts kyu/dan ranking. The colour belts were added later, including the red/white colours for higher dan ranks. But the ranks themselves existed from the start of the kodokan judo.
The Kyu/Dan ranking system was created in in Japan as a ranking system for Go. It was devised as a system with 9 Dan ranks. It was well established when Kano adopted it when he started the Kodokan in 1882. He awarded his first Dan ranks the following year. But the idea of 1-9th Dan was inherent in the system for centuries. When Kano adopted it, he adopted an existing system with 1-9 degrees.
Black belts were added to symbolise Dan ranks in 1886. The Dan rank existed before the black belt.
Later white belts were added for Kyu ranks. And later again coloured belts were added to the Kyu ranks - the ranks already existed.
In 1930, Kano added the Red and white belts for 6th, to 9th Dan. The solid red was added after his death.
As you can see from the above. The ranking system we have now, is more or less the ranks that that Kano introduced at the start. People confuse the idea that there was only two belts (white and black) with there being inly two ranks. That is not the case. The ranks simply didn't have individual colours - which is more likely due to production limitations in 1880s
The incorrect assumptions I mentioned was referring to the idea that degreed ranks came from TKD or somewhere.
Kano was the first to adopt into martial arts kyu/dan ranking. The colour belts were added later, including the red/white colours for higher dan ranks. But the ranks themselves existed from the start of the kodokan judo.
The Kyu/Dan ranking system was created in in Japan as a ranking system for Go. It was devised as a system with 9 Dan ranks. It was well established when Kano adopted it when he started the Kodokan in 1882. He awarded his first Dan ranks the following year. But the idea of 1-9th Dan was inherent in the system for centuries. When Kano adopted it, he adopted an existing system with 1-9 degrees.
Black belts were added to symbolise Dan ranks in 1886. The Dan rank existed before the black belt.
Later white belts were added for Kyu ranks. And later again coloured belts were added to the Kyu ranks - the ranks already existed.
In 1930, Kano added the Red and white belts for 6th, to 9th Dan. The solid red was added after his death.
As you can see from the above. The ranking system we have now, is more or less the ranks that that Kano introduced at the start. People confuse the idea that there was only two belts (white and black) with there being inly two ranks. That is not the case. The ranks simply didn't have individual colours - which is more likely due to production limitations in 1880s
Brown beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
My first coach used to give stripes religiously to all belts, my actual coach don't give it and to be honest it doesn't change anything to me. I go train to get better and have fun, the colour of my belt or the tapes attached to it doesn't make any difference to me. For the business perspective, I don't know, once in both scenarios people quit and I don't think stripes on the belt had something to do with it.
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Im honestly thinking about not giving out stripes any more on purple and brown belts. Its almost impossible to quantify imo.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Im honestly thinking about not giving out stripes any more on purple and brown belts. Its almost impossible to quantify imo.
We decided last month that coloured belts will not receive stripes any more in our gym.
Whitebelts: yes, BB of course, coloured belts: no.
The kids got a lot more coloured belts and they are for motivation.
Blue, Purple and Brown are adult belts, they need to motivate theirselfes in other ways.🤷♂️
Whitebelts: yes, BB of course, coloured belts: no.
The kids got a lot more coloured belts and they are for motivation.
Blue, Purple and Brown are adult belts, they need to motivate theirselfes in other ways.🤷♂️


