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Brainstorming about reporting and preventing sexual assault/abuse within BJJ community
3 year(s) ago • 6813 views • 88 replies
BRBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Why were my questions never answered?
Because they were unreasonable, impossible to answer or have been answered over and over again.
BRBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Did proper safeguarding take place?
Define your understanding of proper safeguarding and I will respond.
We have gone above and beyond the guidelines for the protection concept of the Safe Sports agency (Stelle zur Prävention sexualisierter und interpersoneller Gewalt im Sport des Kreissportbund Ennepe-Ruhr e.V., verantwortliche Stelle innerhalb des Landessportbund NRW).
We have gone above and beyond the guidelines for the protection concept of the Safe Sports agency (Stelle zur Prävention sexualisierter und interpersoneller Gewalt im Sport des Kreissportbund Ennepe-Ruhr e.V., verantwortliche Stelle innerhalb des Landessportbund NRW).
BRBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Why did the coaches let the abusive instructor teach and train from the 20th of May until the 23rd of August? Why didn't they ensure my safety and safeguarded the rest of the students in this period?
This is a nice example of you asking questions over and over again. And same time repeating false information again. Luckily, I only have to scroll up on this page to just copy and paste my answer.
“You asked to suspend your ex during the camp mentioned above. This is also when you first expressed that you were afraid of him. The team acted before you or your ex returned from camp. Your ex was suspended on Monday, July 28. You were informed the same day.”
To clarify again: You INSISTED to sleep at your ex place he night of July 19-20. You went one a two-day trip (overnight), traveling together with him, to a camp. I provide this information to show, that no one could possibly know, that you were afraid of him.
The camp started on July 22. You SUDDENLY told me, that you were afraid of your ex and demanded him to be removed from the team several times between July 22. and 27. He got suspended on July 28.
To clarify further: You DID NOT ask for your ex to be removed before t July 22. You DID NOT express safety concerns before July 22.
More clarity: The claim, that your ex has been teaching or training during opening hours until August 23 is FALSE. He got suspended July 28.
I honestly can’t tell anymore if you are spreading this false information and repeat yourself as if on autopilot to damage my reputation or whether there is another problem.
This is just to make it clear that I do not adopt the term “abusive instructor” as my own:
The instructor in question is not convicted. To my knowledge he has no criminal record. He denies the allegations. To my knowledge there have been no witnesses or physical traces to support the allegation.
“You asked to suspend your ex during the camp mentioned above. This is also when you first expressed that you were afraid of him. The team acted before you or your ex returned from camp. Your ex was suspended on Monday, July 28. You were informed the same day.”
To clarify again: You INSISTED to sleep at your ex place he night of July 19-20. You went one a two-day trip (overnight), traveling together with him, to a camp. I provide this information to show, that no one could possibly know, that you were afraid of him.
The camp started on July 22. You SUDDENLY told me, that you were afraid of your ex and demanded him to be removed from the team several times between July 22. and 27. He got suspended on July 28.
To clarify further: You DID NOT ask for your ex to be removed before t July 22. You DID NOT express safety concerns before July 22.
More clarity: The claim, that your ex has been teaching or training during opening hours until August 23 is FALSE. He got suspended July 28.
I honestly can’t tell anymore if you are spreading this false information and repeat yourself as if on autopilot to damage my reputation or whether there is another problem.
This is just to make it clear that I do not adopt the term “abusive instructor” as my own:
The instructor in question is not convicted. To my knowledge he has no criminal record. He denies the allegations. To my knowledge there have been no witnesses or physical traces to support the allegation.
BRBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Why did he still have access to the gym? Why was he allowed to clean the gym and train and teach the students?
You are answering your own question here. He had access to the gym outside of opening hours to clean it. That was part of his job. Why would we suspend him from that too? He wasn't fired. You don't seem to understand the difference between a temporary suspension and a punishment.
He was NOT allowed to coach or teach the students. You KNOW that! I already provided proof of your knowledge earlier on this thread.
And he did NOT do that either. You also know that from talking to numerous members of the team.
As I know you will bring this up: After some time, when we realized this suspension was going to take some time, he was allowed to train outside of business hours. He did that with a couple competitors. Every single one of them was aware of the allegations and made a conscious decision to do so.
He was NOT allowed to coach or teach the students. You KNOW that! I already provided proof of your knowledge earlier on this thread.
And he did NOT do that either. You also know that from talking to numerous members of the team.
As I know you will bring this up: After some time, when we realized this suspension was going to take some time, he was allowed to train outside of business hours. He did that with a couple competitors. Every single one of them was aware of the allegations and made a conscious decision to do so.
BRBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Why was my safety not prioritized?
Please indicate what measures you would have considered necessary to ensure your safety.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
As this is a German thread really, I will now go here.
This song, is based on a very true story.
As, I know, many of you, already know.
Before the Wall came down, a Soviet officer was tasked with command over a project, to detect an early missile strike, and respond.
The System, implemented in a rushed fashion, detected a positive sign of nuclear missile strike.
The Soviet Officer in Charge, halted the automatic response, and called Moscow.
He was the designer of the system, he knew it was rushed, and flawed.
Moscow ordered him to launch a nuclear strike.
He refused, knowing the limitations of the informing system.
And Weather Balloons, which were the culprit, did not result in World War III.
The Soviet Officer, from that East Berlin Office was rewarded with an all expense paid lifetime appointment to Siberia,
And recently died a few years ago, as an unsung Hero, for averting everything we know, about this area, we now call Germany, much less Berlin, being something out of a Science Fiction movie.
So, perhaps, we should all be more careful, before deploying, our "nukes"....
https://www.youtube.com/w[...]pu5a0Bl8eY
This song, is based on a very true story.
As, I know, many of you, already know.
Before the Wall came down, a Soviet officer was tasked with command over a project, to detect an early missile strike, and respond.
The System, implemented in a rushed fashion, detected a positive sign of nuclear missile strike.
The Soviet Officer in Charge, halted the automatic response, and called Moscow.
He was the designer of the system, he knew it was rushed, and flawed.
Moscow ordered him to launch a nuclear strike.
He refused, knowing the limitations of the informing system.
And Weather Balloons, which were the culprit, did not result in World War III.
The Soviet Officer, from that East Berlin Office was rewarded with an all expense paid lifetime appointment to Siberia,
And recently died a few years ago, as an unsung Hero, for averting everything we know, about this area, we now call Germany, much less Berlin, being something out of a Science Fiction movie.
So, perhaps, we should all be more careful, before deploying, our "nukes"....
https://www.youtube.com/w[...]pu5a0Bl8eY
Edited 1 year(s) ago
SEBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
…and another ironical facet is, that NENA was born in Hagen, which is a City very close to the place this discussed case took place.
Not a fact anyone should be aware of, but -and that is maybe one reason I did not leave this misleaded thread- it is the place I was born over 50 years ago, too.
However, this post is not more OT than most of the posts before….🤷♂️
Not a fact anyone should be aware of, but -and that is maybe one reason I did not leave this misleaded thread- it is the place I was born over 50 years ago, too.
However, this post is not more OT than most of the posts before….🤷♂️
Edited 1 year(s) ago
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Well, if the title of the thread is: "BRAINSTORMING ABOUT REPORTING AND PREVENTING SEXUAL ASSAULT/ABUSE WITHIN BJJ COMMUNITY"
Here is what we have learned about that topic, in this thread.
DV and Sexual Assaults happen, and so do false accusations.
There are also companies and parties that profit by targeting survivors of DV and SA, but some of them may be predatory, in their marketing, and they may be attracting that vulnerable population, to groom that vulnerable population, for their own predatory practices.
Those same organizations, may ironically claim to help their audience spot and resist cults, while the organization itself may be utilizing all kinds of cult dynamics to brain wash their members, and may actually be a cult.
Those organizations may also sensationalize their marketing using FUD campaigns (appealing to Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) which is a highly effective type of campaign to sway gullible public opinion, that was popular in the Roman Empire, and ever since, and has been used effectively, if evilly, widely in the days of social media as well.
We know that any organization or content that takes the position that ALL males are abusers, or that ALL females are abusers, is probably a highly toxic organization.
Those overly broad positions are not only false, but sexist borderline hate speech against entire sex types, and are signs that the organization pushing those narratives is itself using cult dynamics to market themselves and possibly to groom its audience as well.
Likewise, any organization that takes the position, that all accusations must be believed, and an accusation should be treated as proof of guilt, is a toxic organization, and that too, is also a sign of a cult dynamic, as it encourages its audience to disregard the importance of evidence, and critical thinking.
Witch hunts are Evil, and people and organizations that hold themselves out to the public as WitchFinder Generals, are preying on the gullible public, and targeting vulnerable populations for their own profit and gain.
Lynch mobs with pitchforks, and their online equivalents, that disregard due process, should be discouraged by rationale people, and not encouraged.
The fact that these are very old scams (meaning the use of FUD narratives) but every generation still tends to fall for them, suggests that P.T. Barnum and certain Roman leaders were correct: "The Public loves a Circus", and often cares more about blood, than facts or reality.
So, yes, we should take accusations very seriously, and treat the accuser with dignity, and respect, and investigate those claims seriously, using evidence based approaches.
And, unless we are monsters, we should also treat accused parties with dignity, and at least in the United States, with due process including a presumption of innocence, unless actual evidence shows beyond a reasonable doubt, that they are guilty.
Otherwise, we are left with a public so gullible, that they might be ready to lynch an individual or a group based on the narrative that "immigrants are eating people's pets", or other such FUD nonsense.
Here is what we have learned about that topic, in this thread.
DV and Sexual Assaults happen, and so do false accusations.
There are also companies and parties that profit by targeting survivors of DV and SA, but some of them may be predatory, in their marketing, and they may be attracting that vulnerable population, to groom that vulnerable population, for their own predatory practices.
Those same organizations, may ironically claim to help their audience spot and resist cults, while the organization itself may be utilizing all kinds of cult dynamics to brain wash their members, and may actually be a cult.
Those organizations may also sensationalize their marketing using FUD campaigns (appealing to Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) which is a highly effective type of campaign to sway gullible public opinion, that was popular in the Roman Empire, and ever since, and has been used effectively, if evilly, widely in the days of social media as well.
We know that any organization or content that takes the position that ALL males are abusers, or that ALL females are abusers, is probably a highly toxic organization.
Those overly broad positions are not only false, but sexist borderline hate speech against entire sex types, and are signs that the organization pushing those narratives is itself using cult dynamics to market themselves and possibly to groom its audience as well.
Likewise, any organization that takes the position, that all accusations must be believed, and an accusation should be treated as proof of guilt, is a toxic organization, and that too, is also a sign of a cult dynamic, as it encourages its audience to disregard the importance of evidence, and critical thinking.
Witch hunts are Evil, and people and organizations that hold themselves out to the public as WitchFinder Generals, are preying on the gullible public, and targeting vulnerable populations for their own profit and gain.
Lynch mobs with pitchforks, and their online equivalents, that disregard due process, should be discouraged by rationale people, and not encouraged.
The fact that these are very old scams (meaning the use of FUD narratives) but every generation still tends to fall for them, suggests that P.T. Barnum and certain Roman leaders were correct: "The Public loves a Circus", and often cares more about blood, than facts or reality.
So, yes, we should take accusations very seriously, and treat the accuser with dignity, and respect, and investigate those claims seriously, using evidence based approaches.
And, unless we are monsters, we should also treat accused parties with dignity, and at least in the United States, with due process including a presumption of innocence, unless actual evidence shows beyond a reasonable doubt, that they are guilty.
Otherwise, we are left with a public so gullible, that they might be ready to lynch an individual or a group based on the narrative that "immigrants are eating people's pets", or other such FUD nonsense.
Edited 1 year(s) ago
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
I would add, that a group that charges money, especially a for profit group, or that of a non-profit group that pays generous salaries to it's benefiting employees,
to give seminars about DV and SA, well, that is a major red flag, that the group is simply using that vulnerable population for its own selfish purposes.
Likewise, a group that makes significant profits selling content about the topic, is not necessarily a true advocacy group, but may be preying on that vulnerable group, or otherwise using that vulnerable group for purely commercial purposes.
Much like selling high priced Bibles to the desperate and poor, or relics, prayer ribbons, etc, is not advocacy for those vulnerable groups, but a parasitic commercialization of them, and their vulnerable state.
There are plenty of true non-profits that provide their content, and training for free, and do not pay their benefiting employees outrageous salaries.
Although, separately, there are major problems worldwide, with "non-profits" that pay their benefiting employees really (high) egregious salaries, and those organizations are profiting those benefiting employees, even if they are exploiting a non-profit status, to do so.
So, monetized content offerings such as "How to avoid becoming a victim of DV or SA for just $99" are displaying an exploitation for profit red flag right away.
Likewise, monetized content offerings such as "How to avoid your gym being accused of DV or SA for just $499" or "How not be an abusive gym for just $299" are displaying an exploitation for profit red flag right away.
Then there are groups that cultishly use the narrative, that if an individual, group, or organization does not endorse a certain set of narratives, then the dissenting individual or group, will then be targeted as "the enemy", with harassment, and social extortion.
That too, is a red flag of both a cult, and a predatory and toxic group, or organization.
So, as in so many things, one has to look to see if there are money flows, and financial conflicts of interest, as well.
As an example, the IBJJF is a highly commercial operation. They do require Safesport training, and First Aid training for their certified coaches.
But, they are also charging quite a lot of money in predictable and recurring revenues in order for Coaches to have certified rank, and are pretty strict about not giving up any of those back revenues, even for highly qualified coaches, and they are a for profit enterprise, whose purpose is to commercially make money, not to advocate for Jiu-Jitsu quality assurance as an altruistic organization on a charitable mission.
Likewise, groups claiming to advocate for vulnerable populations, but charge monies for profit to do so, are not altruistic groups or organizations, they are commercial ones, doing so for money and profit.
to give seminars about DV and SA, well, that is a major red flag, that the group is simply using that vulnerable population for its own selfish purposes.
Likewise, a group that makes significant profits selling content about the topic, is not necessarily a true advocacy group, but may be preying on that vulnerable group, or otherwise using that vulnerable group for purely commercial purposes.
Much like selling high priced Bibles to the desperate and poor, or relics, prayer ribbons, etc, is not advocacy for those vulnerable groups, but a parasitic commercialization of them, and their vulnerable state.
There are plenty of true non-profits that provide their content, and training for free, and do not pay their benefiting employees outrageous salaries.
Although, separately, there are major problems worldwide, with "non-profits" that pay their benefiting employees really (high) egregious salaries, and those organizations are profiting those benefiting employees, even if they are exploiting a non-profit status, to do so.
So, monetized content offerings such as "How to avoid becoming a victim of DV or SA for just $99" are displaying an exploitation for profit red flag right away.
Likewise, monetized content offerings such as "How to avoid your gym being accused of DV or SA for just $499" or "How not be an abusive gym for just $299" are displaying an exploitation for profit red flag right away.
Then there are groups that cultishly use the narrative, that if an individual, group, or organization does not endorse a certain set of narratives, then the dissenting individual or group, will then be targeted as "the enemy", with harassment, and social extortion.
That too, is a red flag of both a cult, and a predatory and toxic group, or organization.
So, as in so many things, one has to look to see if there are money flows, and financial conflicts of interest, as well.
As an example, the IBJJF is a highly commercial operation. They do require Safesport training, and First Aid training for their certified coaches.
But, they are also charging quite a lot of money in predictable and recurring revenues in order for Coaches to have certified rank, and are pretty strict about not giving up any of those back revenues, even for highly qualified coaches, and they are a for profit enterprise, whose purpose is to commercially make money, not to advocate for Jiu-Jitsu quality assurance as an altruistic organization on a charitable mission.
Likewise, groups claiming to advocate for vulnerable populations, but charge monies for profit to do so, are not altruistic groups or organizations, they are commercial ones, doing so for money and profit.
Edited 1 year(s) ago
JCPurple beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
So, monetized content offerings such as 'How to avoid becoming a victim of DV or SA for just $99' are displaying an exploitation for profit red flag right away. Likewise, monetized content offerings such as 'How to avoid your gym being accused of DV or SA for just $499' or 'How not be an abusive gym for just $299' are displaying an exploitation for profit red flag right away. Then there are groups that cultishly use the narrative, that if an individual, group, or organization does not endorse a certain set of narratives, then the dissenting individual or group, will then be targeted as 'the enemy', with harassment, and social extortion.
Sounds a whole like paying for protection from the mob. Hmmmm.
![Slideyfoot [jun]](userimg/5e25cf311adfd.jpg){kind=small}
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
I haven't said anything much on this thread yet, because I think I have personally met everybody involved in the case Sarah and Bernd have been discussing.
However, I did want to jump in to clarify what Off the Zone is like, as I don't think that's come across. I'm a school owner who has paid for that program and been happy with it.
They don't sell a one-off seminar, it's more like the Grapplers Guide (a one-off fee for lifetime access). They've built up a large repository of videos (to which they keep adding) covering a broad range of topics, with a range of different speakers.
Also, it would be good to hear more female voices on this thread. Though I guess there aren't many active female posters on Beltchecker.
However, I did want to jump in to clarify what Off the Zone is like, as I don't think that's come across. I'm a school owner who has paid for that program and been happy with it.
They don't sell a one-off seminar, it's more like the Grapplers Guide (a one-off fee for lifetime access). They've built up a large repository of videos (to which they keep adding) covering a broad range of topics, with a range of different speakers.
Also, it would be good to hear more female voices on this thread. Though I guess there aren't many active female posters on Beltchecker.
CBlack beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
Hi, not an "active" poster on Beltchecker, but as Can said i can also attest to how happy i have been with Off the Zone. when i started the programm years ago i did not know them. I am truly grateful for what i have learned and it has helped me help numerous people through the years. Other than that there is not much i can offer to the thread as my gym has always been like a home; caring, safe, a place where my kid could literally grow up on the mats, filled with a whole bunch of people who i trust with my (and my daughters) life. I wish everyone could have what i have. But as BJJ and the internet (connections) grows so does the overwhelming sadness that places like ours are a rariety.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
But as BJJ and the internet (connections) grows so does the overwhelming sadness that places like ours are a rariety.
I am delighted that you feel that your gym is a safe and happy place for you.
Most people tend to find their BJJ gym, as their happy place, where they feel safe, surrounded by friends.
That is the norm for most BJJ practitioners, and therefore the base case norm for most BJJ gyms, and therefore not rare at all.
Of course outliers exist, as they do in all professions, all institutions, all sex types, and all races.
And, of course a demographic that enjoys getting choked, and choking people, and/or MMA, as their recreational hobby is sometimes correlated with exhibiting risk loving, or deliberate ignorance to risk behaviors....
But if someone or any group, is putting out the narrative that most BJJ gyms are not as the norm, or the majority, happy places, where their practitioners feel safe,
they had better have some objective data to back that claim up, beyond just testimonials about programs selling Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt programs and narratives.
As an example, the law was changed in the U.S. several years ago to recognize a female adult who has sexual relations with juvenile male as statutory rape, with a requirement to report and prosecute those incidents as crimes, now (meaning treat them the same as male adults to female juveniles).
And overnight, we saw daily reports of female school teachers across the U.S. having sex with their middle school or high school male students, in about the same frequency as the male school teachers.
Ironically, we also saw greater numbers of female prison guards sexually abusing juvenile male inmates, than male prison guards sexually abusing female juvenile inmates.
But, that does not mean in a nation of 330 documented people (the U.S., for instance), that the norm case for female school teachers, or female prison guards, is that they are sexual predators of male juveniles.
It means that the reporting of the cases has gotten widespread, and in the age of social media particularly, spread like wildfire, so there is very, very high visibility and eyeball share on them.
And, because they are horrible cases, they get lots of shares, and comments, and eyeballs, and regular media also loves them for the same reason.
Just as cases of male sexual abusers get high shares, comments, and likes, and the regular media, likewise loves them for the same reason, they are easily converted to brand dollars, because they are horrible cases, that get high eyeball share.
Likewise, any group or individual that takes the position, that:
all males are abusers, or all women are abusers,
or all straight people are abusers, or all gay people are abusers,
or all people of a certain religion (or atheists) are abusers,
or all people from a certain race or ethnic background are criminals,
is putting out extremely bigoted speech, that is in fact a type of hate speech.
And, if they are a commercial enterprise, doing so, they must be regarded very suspiciously if they do so.
Because it is extremely easy, and effective, to generate money flows, by selling Fear narratives.
And, even outside of commercial conflicts of interest, for people selling and marketing commercial programs, regarding putting out Fear narratives, human beings are also often prone to gossip, and sometimes even enjoy branding people with a social "Scarlet Letter".
So BJJ has it's share of abusers, and more than it's fair share of risk loving or risk ignoring knuckle heads.
But, most BJJ coaches, male or female, are not sexual predators, and are no more prone to domestic violence, than the general population (perhaps controlling for long term CTE, and substance abuse issues).
Most BJJ gyms are not human trafficking children either, nor running fighting dog rings, nor are they eating pets.
Most people tend to find their BJJ gym, as their happy place, where they feel safe, surrounded by friends.
That is the norm for most BJJ practitioners, and therefore the base case norm for most BJJ gyms, and therefore not rare at all.
Of course outliers exist, as they do in all professions, all institutions, all sex types, and all races.
And, of course a demographic that enjoys getting choked, and choking people, and/or MMA, as their recreational hobby is sometimes correlated with exhibiting risk loving, or deliberate ignorance to risk behaviors....
But if someone or any group, is putting out the narrative that most BJJ gyms are not as the norm, or the majority, happy places, where their practitioners feel safe,
they had better have some objective data to back that claim up, beyond just testimonials about programs selling Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt programs and narratives.
As an example, the law was changed in the U.S. several years ago to recognize a female adult who has sexual relations with juvenile male as statutory rape, with a requirement to report and prosecute those incidents as crimes, now (meaning treat them the same as male adults to female juveniles).
And overnight, we saw daily reports of female school teachers across the U.S. having sex with their middle school or high school male students, in about the same frequency as the male school teachers.
Ironically, we also saw greater numbers of female prison guards sexually abusing juvenile male inmates, than male prison guards sexually abusing female juvenile inmates.
But, that does not mean in a nation of 330 documented people (the U.S., for instance), that the norm case for female school teachers, or female prison guards, is that they are sexual predators of male juveniles.
It means that the reporting of the cases has gotten widespread, and in the age of social media particularly, spread like wildfire, so there is very, very high visibility and eyeball share on them.
And, because they are horrible cases, they get lots of shares, and comments, and eyeballs, and regular media also loves them for the same reason.
Just as cases of male sexual abusers get high shares, comments, and likes, and the regular media, likewise loves them for the same reason, they are easily converted to brand dollars, because they are horrible cases, that get high eyeball share.
Likewise, any group or individual that takes the position, that:
all males are abusers, or all women are abusers,
or all straight people are abusers, or all gay people are abusers,
or all people of a certain religion (or atheists) are abusers,
or all people from a certain race or ethnic background are criminals,
is putting out extremely bigoted speech, that is in fact a type of hate speech.
And, if they are a commercial enterprise, doing so, they must be regarded very suspiciously if they do so.
Because it is extremely easy, and effective, to generate money flows, by selling Fear narratives.
And, even outside of commercial conflicts of interest, for people selling and marketing commercial programs, regarding putting out Fear narratives, human beings are also often prone to gossip, and sometimes even enjoy branding people with a social "Scarlet Letter".
So BJJ has it's share of abusers, and more than it's fair share of risk loving or risk ignoring knuckle heads.
But, most BJJ coaches, male or female, are not sexual predators, and are no more prone to domestic violence, than the general population (perhaps controlling for long term CTE, and substance abuse issues).
Most BJJ gyms are not human trafficking children either, nor running fighting dog rings, nor are they eating pets.
Edited 1 year(s) ago
CBlack beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
"But as BJJ and the internet (connections) grows so does the overwhelming sadness that places like ours are a rariety
There is always going to be opinions on what a good gym is or isn´t. There will always be a difference of opinion. As there seems to be today. My comment is not a half arsed thought i had, nor a narrative that i am putting out, it is a reality that has come to pass, the objective data being every single person whom i have had a conversation with about their gym the good and the bad. The objective data being the fact that i have helped alot of people. You don´t have to agree or cite paragraphs upon paragraphs of information that have not alot to do with what i wrote. Like i don´t have to try to explain why i think you are wrong. We can all have our opinions and be merry or not
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
There is always going to be opinions on what a good gym is or isn´t. There will always be a difference of opinion. As there seems to be today. My comment is not a half arsed thought i had, nor a narrative that i am putting out, it is a reality that has come to pass, the objective data being every single person whom i have had a conversation with about their gym the good and the bad. The objective data being the fact that i have helped alot of people. You don´t have to agree or cite paragraphs upon paragraphs of information that have not alot to do with what i wrote. Like i don´t have to try to explain why i think you are wrong. We can all have our opinions and be merry or not
Of course you can have your own opinion, and state it.
But what may be a rarity for you, may not be rare for others.
And, there is no data that suggests that BJJ gyms or coaches, are abusive or predatory as a base case.
That maligns an entire demographic, profession, and group with an overly broad brush.
That may be your opinion, but other people can certainly have other opinions, than yours.
Especially since the opinion you stated is strictly anecdotal without objective data.
But what may be a rarity for you, may not be rare for others.
And, there is no data that suggests that BJJ gyms or coaches, are abusive or predatory as a base case.
That maligns an entire demographic, profession, and group with an overly broad brush.
That may be your opinion, but other people can certainly have other opinions, than yours.
Especially since the opinion you stated is strictly anecdotal without objective data.
CBlack beltVerified
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Not what i said was it.
Well good.
It seemed like you were saying that your gym was a non-abusive / safe BJJ gym, and that was rarity, thus implying that BJJ gyms other than your own were not safe, or were abusive as the norm.
I am delighted to hear that that’s not the case, and that’s not a statement that you made, as that would be a hell of a way to complement one’s own gym, at the expense of the alternatives to one’s own gym, or group or tribe….
It seemed like you were saying that your gym was a non-abusive / safe BJJ gym, and that was rarity, thus implying that BJJ gyms other than your own were not safe, or were abusive as the norm.
I am delighted to hear that that’s not the case, and that’s not a statement that you made, as that would be a hell of a way to complement one’s own gym, at the expense of the alternatives to one’s own gym, or group or tribe….
CBlack beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
Well good. It seemed like you were saying that your gym was a non-abusive / safe BJJ gym, and that was rarity, thus implying that BJJ gyms other than your own were not safe, or were abusive as the norm. I am delighted to hear that that’s not the case, and that’s not a statement that you made, as that would be a hell of a way to complement one’s own gym, at the expense of the alternatives to one’s own gym, or group or tribe….
Yes, Good. You coulda just asked me right out if that was what i meant #justsayin
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Yes, Good. You coulda just asked me right out if that was what i meant #justsayin
Fair enough.
Thank you for the conversation.
Thank you for the conversation.
AZBrown beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
Sorry for digging up this old thread but there has been an update:
The accused has been convicted.
At the time of this post I am not aware of any official statement by the affected gym nor any apologies to the victim.
The accused has been convicted.
At the time of this post I am not aware of any official statement by the affected gym nor any apologies to the victim.
BRBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Sorry for digging up this old thread but there has been an update: The accused has been convicted. At the time of this post I am not aware of any official statement by the affected gym nor any apologies to the victim.
Alex Zurhake, unfortunately I have to say that your statement is not correct. The accused is not yet convicted. The judgment is not final. Both sides can still appeal.
Why is this important?
In your status on off_the_zone you are currently referring to a podcast in which Lara Winnenberg, a speaker on the topic of “preventing interpersonal and sexualized violence in sport” at Gelsensport, has her say. You also explicitly mention the measures suggested by Lara Winnenberg that a team should take if an allegation is made. Here your text:
---
First step: Believe the victim and create a small group of people that are trustworthy and keep quiet.
Second step: Hopefully you have safeguarding protocols in place so you know whom to call/contact. So far only the people involved in this small group know.
Third step: In this case since physical assault took place, supporting the victim to report to the police (if they want) is helpful.
Fourth step: Suspend the accused.
NOTE: since a lot is usually still unclear at this stage, allow them grace by letting them come up with a reason why they won’t be there for a while: family reasons, sabbatical what have you. Doing this keeps things quiet before more is known and decided as well as giving space to the accused.
Fifth step: In this example waiting for a court hearing and potential verdict.
A mistake teams may make is becoming impatient and taking maters in their own hands (more to this later).
Sixth step: Eventually there will be an outcome, in this case the accused got convicted. The team removes the guilty party now indefinitely. (From suspension to let go).
Then depending on the team they may make a statement when they want to inform other teams that may be keen on hiring him.
Bottom line: when handled well, the world would only learn of this after a statement and perhaps soke rumors but not much else.
---
The last two paragraphs were not part of Lara Winnenberg’s comments but added by you.
Now you complain, that no statement has been made by the team even though your business specifically state that the professional behavior would be to wait for the final verdict.
The team exactly followed (and still follows) the steps suggested by Lara Winnenberg in your status.
Yet you personally and your business off_the_zone attack us relentlessly BECAUSE we DO follow the professional guidelines. You spread misinformation, use deceptive tactics and knowingly and intentionally support third parties who are spreading lies. All of this has already been documented in this thread. And you keep doing this. I find this deeply disturbing.
Why is this important?
In your status on off_the_zone you are currently referring to a podcast in which Lara Winnenberg, a speaker on the topic of “preventing interpersonal and sexualized violence in sport” at Gelsensport, has her say. You also explicitly mention the measures suggested by Lara Winnenberg that a team should take if an allegation is made. Here your text:
---
First step: Believe the victim and create a small group of people that are trustworthy and keep quiet.
Second step: Hopefully you have safeguarding protocols in place so you know whom to call/contact. So far only the people involved in this small group know.
Third step: In this case since physical assault took place, supporting the victim to report to the police (if they want) is helpful.
Fourth step: Suspend the accused.
NOTE: since a lot is usually still unclear at this stage, allow them grace by letting them come up with a reason why they won’t be there for a while: family reasons, sabbatical what have you. Doing this keeps things quiet before more is known and decided as well as giving space to the accused.
Fifth step: In this example waiting for a court hearing and potential verdict.
A mistake teams may make is becoming impatient and taking maters in their own hands (more to this later).
Sixth step: Eventually there will be an outcome, in this case the accused got convicted. The team removes the guilty party now indefinitely. (From suspension to let go).
Then depending on the team they may make a statement when they want to inform other teams that may be keen on hiring him.
Bottom line: when handled well, the world would only learn of this after a statement and perhaps soke rumors but not much else.
---
The last two paragraphs were not part of Lara Winnenberg’s comments but added by you.
Now you complain, that no statement has been made by the team even though your business specifically state that the professional behavior would be to wait for the final verdict.
The team exactly followed (and still follows) the steps suggested by Lara Winnenberg in your status.
Yet you personally and your business off_the_zone attack us relentlessly BECAUSE we DO follow the professional guidelines. You spread misinformation, use deceptive tactics and knowingly and intentionally support third parties who are spreading lies. All of this has already been documented in this thread. And you keep doing this. I find this deeply disturbing.
LMBlue beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
First and foremost, Sarah, I am deeply sorry that you had to go through this. No one should ever have to face such a situation. What you experienced is unacceptable, and I wholeheartedly stand with you.
Now, let’s talk about the larger picture here. It’s evident that there is a great deal of misunderstanding surrounding how victims of sexual or domestic violence are expected to act. There’s this unfortunate stereotype that survivors must follow a set of predetermined steps: leaving immediately after the first instance of abuse, going straight to the police, ensuring they have a perfect set of evidence. And most damagingly, they are expected to act rationally in a situation where everything feels anything but rational.
What’s concerning is that you, Coach Bernd seems to be operating under these misconceptions, which reflect a severe lack of understanding about how abuse works. Victims don’t simply act according to a clean, logical script. It’s not always easy to leave, report, or gather evidence. Many victims don’t come forward immediately because of fear—fear of retribution, fear of not being believed, or even fear for their safety. And yet, this doesn’t mean their experiences are any less real or valid.
I’m not blaming you. I am pretty sure you didn't know better. This all is not something we all know naturally. However, I sincerely urge you to educate yourself thoroughly on the issue—both for your own understanding and for the safety of everyone at your gym. As a coach, your first responsibility should be to ensure a safe environment for your students, especially in such delicate matters.
It’s evident from your responses that you seem to be more focused on defending your actions than on addressing the actual issue at hand. This is concerning. Survivors need support, not scrutiny. When a survivor speaks out, especially about something as difficult and traumatic as domestic violence or sexual assault, the last thing they need is to be questioned or doubted by those who should be offering them safety.
Having worked with victims of domestic/sexual violence for years, I can assure you that the response Sarah received was profoundly victim-blaming and harmful. It’s crucial to recognize that a person’s emotional state, their timeline for leaving an abuser, or their approach to reporting the crime is often shaped by complex, deeply personal reasons. These should be respected—not questioned.
To Bernd, I ask: Please take this as a call to action, not defensiveness. Your job as a coach extends far beyond teaching techniques—it includes fostering an environment where everyone feels safe, heard, and supported. You have an opportunity here to make a real change by educating yourself about the realities of abuse and how to respond appropriately. I know this can be a hard topic, but it’s essential for the wellbeing of all involved, including the victims.
Sarah deserved better. She deserves respect, support, and understanding—not doubt or dismissal. Let’s all take a moment to reflect on how we can be better allies and protectors in our communities.
Now, let’s talk about the larger picture here. It’s evident that there is a great deal of misunderstanding surrounding how victims of sexual or domestic violence are expected to act. There’s this unfortunate stereotype that survivors must follow a set of predetermined steps: leaving immediately after the first instance of abuse, going straight to the police, ensuring they have a perfect set of evidence. And most damagingly, they are expected to act rationally in a situation where everything feels anything but rational.
What’s concerning is that you, Coach Bernd seems to be operating under these misconceptions, which reflect a severe lack of understanding about how abuse works. Victims don’t simply act according to a clean, logical script. It’s not always easy to leave, report, or gather evidence. Many victims don’t come forward immediately because of fear—fear of retribution, fear of not being believed, or even fear for their safety. And yet, this doesn’t mean their experiences are any less real or valid.
I’m not blaming you. I am pretty sure you didn't know better. This all is not something we all know naturally. However, I sincerely urge you to educate yourself thoroughly on the issue—both for your own understanding and for the safety of everyone at your gym. As a coach, your first responsibility should be to ensure a safe environment for your students, especially in such delicate matters.
It’s evident from your responses that you seem to be more focused on defending your actions than on addressing the actual issue at hand. This is concerning. Survivors need support, not scrutiny. When a survivor speaks out, especially about something as difficult and traumatic as domestic violence or sexual assault, the last thing they need is to be questioned or doubted by those who should be offering them safety.
Having worked with victims of domestic/sexual violence for years, I can assure you that the response Sarah received was profoundly victim-blaming and harmful. It’s crucial to recognize that a person’s emotional state, their timeline for leaving an abuser, or their approach to reporting the crime is often shaped by complex, deeply personal reasons. These should be respected—not questioned.
To Bernd, I ask: Please take this as a call to action, not defensiveness. Your job as a coach extends far beyond teaching techniques—it includes fostering an environment where everyone feels safe, heard, and supported. You have an opportunity here to make a real change by educating yourself about the realities of abuse and how to respond appropriately. I know this can be a hard topic, but it’s essential for the wellbeing of all involved, including the victims.
Sarah deserved better. She deserves respect, support, and understanding—not doubt or dismissal. Let’s all take a moment to reflect on how we can be better allies and protectors in our communities.
SFBrown beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
Hello everyone! Hope u r all doing great and kicking your bjj skills to another level. I want to ask your opinion how we can fight the sexual harassment in BJJ community. I personally faced it in Brazil when a coach made physical inappropriate movements to me. I reported to the owner of the school via instagram and another head coach of the network from another country. No answer, no reaction, nothing. This guy still coaching, he has some females in the school (adults, teens and kids). Also I faced the situation when the coach thinks it's okay to approach me and to ask u out on a date or make dirty sex related jokes with me involved. I left the school and shared info with girls I was close to. I almost left bjj bc of those cases. I don't feel safe anymore even though I came seeking self defense and destruction from my life challenges. And u know what bothers me, that when I speak with someone about this problem their reaction - tolerance bc I wasn't raped. Only tips most of ppl give me: "watch out" "choose a partners who u roll with" "change the school" "try not to be nice to everyone" "are u sure it was inappropriate touch bc it's contact sport, remember it" Another thing I see as a cause of tolerance for this problem is that not many ppl speak up. It's hard to speak about such things in general. U need to feel safe, supported and understood. Most sexual abuses create traumas and survivors tend to blame themselves, be ashamed and it makes it so hard to speak about it. What I think might help here: - transparent procedures to report about such things in main federations, BJJ networks - awareness about such procedures - for bjj practitioners whom committed a crime (rape, or attempt to rape, sexual assault to under age, etc.) create a register with federations support involved Summarizing all that, I would say that lack of transparency, impunity for those who do criminal or inappropriate things help them to keep going with their dark business. We need to do something about it bc even most of u not female ppl but u might have daughters, sisters and relatives, wives, friends who might be doing bjj and face it. For female representatives here I would say that it's important to stay for ourselves and other females as well. Would love to hear from you guys what's in your heads and what you can suggest to kick off this problem.
Hey,
I’ve experienced this as a higher belt that has cross trained at many different gyms. I think raising awareness would be beneficial. I think leaving the gym that makes you uncomfortable or puts you in these situations is needed. Staying with them will slow if not completely stop your growth as a grappler.
I’ve experienced this as a higher belt that has cross trained at many different gyms. I think raising awareness would be beneficial. I think leaving the gym that makes you uncomfortable or puts you in these situations is needed. Staying with them will slow if not completely stop your growth as a grappler.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Sorry for digging up this old thread but there has been an update: The accused has been convicted. At the time of this post I am not aware of any official statement by the affected gym nor any apologies to the victim.
If you are going to make that kind of statement, are you not going to attach copies of the court docs, or any evidence of that claim?
Some claims can be proven with formal logic, math, or even less formal methods.
But these are very serious claims, really the most serious kind.
I am not commenting (STILL!) on whether your claim is true or not.
Merely that you have (STILL!) skipped the step of providing evidence, when you make such a claim, as the burden of providing proof, is with the maker of the claim.
And with a claim this serious, of a felonious criminal nature, it would seem that providing the proof of that criminal conviction in the form of a court doc, would be the minimal professional tables stakes ante.
Because claims without evidence have a name in English: gossip.
Your claim may be true.
It is of the most serious, reputation destroying kind, so please provide the proof of that claim, since you are the one who has made it publicly, so all can review the court evidence of same.
Now, if by chance Germany or whatever domicile does not allow those evidences and court docs to be public, that would present a very *** problem.
So, I hope that is not the case.
If not, could you post the evidence?
Otherwise, we should not wish to ever train people wrongly, that accusations without proof, should ever be treated as if the accused parties were guilty, with no due process.
Some claims can be proven with formal logic, math, or even less formal methods.
But these are very serious claims, really the most serious kind.
I am not commenting (STILL!) on whether your claim is true or not.
Merely that you have (STILL!) skipped the step of providing evidence, when you make such a claim, as the burden of providing proof, is with the maker of the claim.
And with a claim this serious, of a felonious criminal nature, it would seem that providing the proof of that criminal conviction in the form of a court doc, would be the minimal professional tables stakes ante.
Because claims without evidence have a name in English: gossip.
Your claim may be true.
It is of the most serious, reputation destroying kind, so please provide the proof of that claim, since you are the one who has made it publicly, so all can review the court evidence of same.
Now, if by chance Germany or whatever domicile does not allow those evidences and court docs to be public, that would present a very *** problem.
So, I hope that is not the case.
If not, could you post the evidence?
Otherwise, we should not wish to ever train people wrongly, that accusations without proof, should ever be treated as if the accused parties were guilty, with no due process.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Alex Zurhake, unfortunately I have to say that your statement is not correct. The accused is not yet convicted. The judgment is not final. Both sides can still appeal. Why is this important? In your status on off_the_zone you are currently referring to a podcast in which Lara Winnenberg, a speaker on the topic of “preventing interpersonal and sexualized violence in sport” at Gelsensport, has her say. You also explicitly mention the measures suggested by Lara Winnenberg that a team should take if an allegation is made. Here your text: --- First step: Believe the victim and create a small group of people that are trustworthy and keep quiet. Second step: Hopefully you have safeguarding protocols in place so you know whom to call/contact. So far only the people involved in this small group know. Third step: In this case since physical assault took place, supporting the victim to report to the police (if they want) is helpful. Fourth step: Suspend the accused. NOTE: since a lot is usually still unclear at this stage, allow them grace by letting them come up with a reason why they won’t be there for a while: family reasons, sabbatical what have you. Doing this keeps things quiet before more is known and decided as well as giving space to the accused. Fifth step: In this example waiting for a court hearing and potential verdict. A mistake teams may make is becoming impatient and taking maters in their own hands (more to this later). Sixth step: Eventually there will be an outcome, in this case the accused got convicted. The team removes the guilty party now indefinitely. (From suspension to let go). Then depending on the team they may make a statement when they want to inform other teams that may be keen on hiring him. Bottom line: when handled well, the world would only learn of this after a statement and perhaps soke rumors but not much else. --- The last two paragraphs were not part of Lara Winnenberg’s comments but added by you. Now you complain, that no statement has been made by the team even though your business specifically state that the professional behavior would be to wait for the final verdict. The team exactly followed (and still follows) the steps suggested by Lara Winnenberg in your status. Yet you personally and your business off_the_zone attack us relentlessly BECAUSE we DO follow the professional guidelines. You spread misinformation, use deceptive tactics and knowingly and intentionally support third parties who are spreading lies. All of this has already been documented in this thread. And you keep doing this. I find this deeply disturbing.
I realize that you are not the person who made the claim,
But if the maker of the claim fails to provide proof for his claim,
after a few weeks,
If Germany or whatever domicile does not make such court matters private, except to the involved parties,
Could you kindly provide the court docs?
If the maker of the claim does not?
Because the Internet does NOT need another gossip board.
If there are court docs, since we were engaged in quite a long discussion with these parties, on this board, perhaps those parties could provide some proofs, or evidences - finally- since Alex Zurhake claims they exist, and you have confirmed that some type of review of the evidences may have occurred by the authorities in the domicile in question.
But if the maker of the claim fails to provide proof for his claim,
after a few weeks,
If Germany or whatever domicile does not make such court matters private, except to the involved parties,
Could you kindly provide the court docs?
If the maker of the claim does not?
Because the Internet does NOT need another gossip board.
If there are court docs, since we were engaged in quite a long discussion with these parties, on this board, perhaps those parties could provide some proofs, or evidences - finally- since Alex Zurhake claims they exist, and you have confirmed that some type of review of the evidences may have occurred by the authorities in the domicile in question.
JCPurple beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
when you make such a claim, as the burden of providing proof, is with the maker of the claim.
That seems to be exactly the opposite of what we see regularly in our American judicial system and in the court of public opinion. When someone is accused of a crime, particularly one involving sexual misconduct, the charges make the front page above the fold with big and bold headlines. You won't find the article about the charges being dismissed or the accused being found innocent without a thorough search. At that point, the damage is done and can't be repaired.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
That seems to be exactly the opposite of what we see regularly in our American judicial system and in the court of public opinion. When someone is accused of a crime, particularly one involving sexual misconduct, the charges make the front page above the fold with big and bold headlines. You won't find the article about the charges being dismissed or the accused being found innocent without a thorough search. At that point, the damage is done and can't be repaired.
The court of public opinion, left to its own devices, invariably results in ignorant mobs lynching human sacrifices from time to time, with no regard to real morality, or real ethicality, and certainly not legality.
And, sadly, bad actors in law enforcement agencies, prosecutorial offices, and in the vulgar mob, will often try to destroy the ability for an accused party (not just for sexual assault crime accusations, but any crime accusations outrageous to the public) to get a fair trial.
In the United States, alarmingly, there are several areas of jurisprudence that are now considered strict liability crimes, and crimes where only showing constructive possession rather than actual possession is sufficient, and bizarrely, there are now some areas of jurisprudence in play where an accused party, and their counsel cannot see the evidence that would prove their guilt (national security, active investigations, some obscenity / human trafficking / sex crimes, accusations).
An attorney at that point, will make a motion to suppress, but in some administrative matters, for instance, currently for some visa holders getting deported, those basic due processes are not occurring.
This becomes an interesting conundrum, as Congress famously has off loaded some of their law making responsibilities to Executive Federal agencies whose regulations hold the weight of law, and some judges are administrative, and not every matter in those circumstances, gets the same due process.
All very vexing.
At the end of the day, if we start breaking the rules, which in the United States, are the Bill of Rights, and the Constitution, and the presumption of innocence until found guilty of a crime in a court of law, then we become the criminals, and the bad guys, that we claim to oppose.
Because certainly, many countries have beautiful Constitutions, which guarantee their citizens many rights, but those countries do not always follow them.
And following a Constitution and Bill of Rights, especially regarding those individuals determined to be hated, or that are generally considered undesirable to the public, is PRECISELY where following a Bill of Rights and Constitution counts.
Like Muhammud Ali, following the Bill of Rights and Constitution only really count, when it hurts.....
Now, Mr. Cavett referenced the U.S., I live in the U.S., and I have answered from the U.S. perspective.
But, this matter did not occur in the U.S., but in Germany, and the only thing I really know about Germany is that I love pig knuckes, German Beer, and the warm baths, in Baden Baden.
And, sadly, bad actors in law enforcement agencies, prosecutorial offices, and in the vulgar mob, will often try to destroy the ability for an accused party (not just for sexual assault crime accusations, but any crime accusations outrageous to the public) to get a fair trial.
In the United States, alarmingly, there are several areas of jurisprudence that are now considered strict liability crimes, and crimes where only showing constructive possession rather than actual possession is sufficient, and bizarrely, there are now some areas of jurisprudence in play where an accused party, and their counsel cannot see the evidence that would prove their guilt (national security, active investigations, some obscenity / human trafficking / sex crimes, accusations).
An attorney at that point, will make a motion to suppress, but in some administrative matters, for instance, currently for some visa holders getting deported, those basic due processes are not occurring.
This becomes an interesting conundrum, as Congress famously has off loaded some of their law making responsibilities to Executive Federal agencies whose regulations hold the weight of law, and some judges are administrative, and not every matter in those circumstances, gets the same due process.
All very vexing.
At the end of the day, if we start breaking the rules, which in the United States, are the Bill of Rights, and the Constitution, and the presumption of innocence until found guilty of a crime in a court of law, then we become the criminals, and the bad guys, that we claim to oppose.
Because certainly, many countries have beautiful Constitutions, which guarantee their citizens many rights, but those countries do not always follow them.
And following a Constitution and Bill of Rights, especially regarding those individuals determined to be hated, or that are generally considered undesirable to the public, is PRECISELY where following a Bill of Rights and Constitution counts.
Like Muhammud Ali, following the Bill of Rights and Constitution only really count, when it hurts.....
Now, Mr. Cavett referenced the U.S., I live in the U.S., and I have answered from the U.S. perspective.
But, this matter did not occur in the U.S., but in Germany, and the only thing I really know about Germany is that I love pig knuckes, German Beer, and the warm baths, in Baden Baden.
CBlack beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
That seems to be exactly the opposite of what we see regularly in our American judicial system and in the court of public opinion. When someone is accused of a crime, particularly one involving sexual misconduct, the charges make the front page above the fold with big and bold headlines. You won't find the article about the charges being dismissed or the accused being found innocent without a thorough search. At that point, the damage is done and can't be repaired.
+ @williammurphy
Not the same in Germany. I just know from personal experience when you press charges at the police station it then goes to the Staatsanwaltschaft (Lawyers of the State so to speak) they look at the evidence and deem themselves if there is enough to continue to press charges in a court of law. If not, the accuser is informed that there is not enough evidence (in my case they deemed it so) and so they will not press charges: you are allowed to privately go to court with your own lawyer filing for repayment of damages. When the Staatanwaltschaft are invovled its serious enough that they believe they can „win“. Also Germans are extremely strict regarding personal information = Datenschutz (Ensures the safety of your personal information) - hence i doubt the public is privvy to any documents
Not the same in Germany. I just know from personal experience when you press charges at the police station it then goes to the Staatsanwaltschaft (Lawyers of the State so to speak) they look at the evidence and deem themselves if there is enough to continue to press charges in a court of law. If not, the accuser is informed that there is not enough evidence (in my case they deemed it so) and so they will not press charges: you are allowed to privately go to court with your own lawyer filing for repayment of damages. When the Staatanwaltschaft are invovled its serious enough that they believe they can „win“. Also Germans are extremely strict regarding personal information = Datenschutz (Ensures the safety of your personal information) - hence i doubt the public is privvy to any documents
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
+ @williammurphy Not the same in Germany. I just know from personal experience when you press charges at the police station it then goes to the Staatsanwaltschaft (Lawyers of the State so to speak) they look at the evidence and deem themselves if there is enough to continue to press charges in a court of law. If not, the accuser is informed that there is not enough evidence (in my case they deemed it so) and so they will not press charges: you are allowed to privately go to court with your own lawyer filing for repayment of damages. When the Staatanwaltschaft are invovled its serious enough that they believe they can „win“. Also Germans are extremely strict regarding personal information = Datenschutz (Ensures the safety of your personal information) - hence i doubt the public is privvy to any documents
The United States follows a similar approach for children and child sex cases.
For adult accusers, it depends on the State regarding transparency of court docs, etc.
Although the press usually sells eyeballs ahead of time, often in speculative manners.
However, a court ruling of "guilty" for an adult in a court doc, regarding sentencing, with or without the accuser's (and/or any survivors or victims name(s)) redacted is almost always (always?) available to the public.
Public often means for a fee on the PACER system, for free at the designated free PACER library locations, or free at public domain for court docs mirror sites, by the OS law community.
For adult accusers, it depends on the State regarding transparency of court docs, etc.
Although the press usually sells eyeballs ahead of time, often in speculative manners.
However, a court ruling of "guilty" for an adult in a court doc, regarding sentencing, with or without the accuser's (and/or any survivors or victims name(s)) redacted is almost always (always?) available to the public.
Public often means for a fee on the PACER system, for free at the designated free PACER library locations, or free at public domain for court docs mirror sites, by the OS law community.
