Rules for main forums
- Be nice
- No advertisement
- No events
- No fundraisers
- No topics asking for votes
- Only posts related to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
not eligible to promote to black belt?
5 year(s) ago • 10602 views • 88 replies
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Fair enough! I probably would too, I think belts should denote more than simply beating someone in a match, especially when it comes to teenagers. Entirely different topic though. Have a good weekend
Absolutely, man. You too!
JMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
Disclaimer: I literally received my BJJ Black Belt yesterday… BUT I have been involved in martial arts for about 35 years so I’ll speak from this vantage point…
1. While it is common in most other martial arts to be able to promote up to one rank below your own. However, BJJ is one of, if not the only martial art I’m aware of where you are ONLY a Black Belt then years later receive the 1st Degree (ie. In Taekwondo / Tang Soo Do, Karate) you are either a colored belt or a 1st Degree).
Therefore, following the “one rank below your own” method it would also require you to be a 2nd Degree prior to promoting someone else to BB
2. Yes, the community standard is something I’ve always appreciated about BJJ (aside from IBJJF rule) as it serves to prevent some issues often encountered in other arts. I use the previously provided example of Galvao (and I believe Grace Gundrum is applicable)… of course they are on a competitive level of BB, but as previously stated this does in fact create the slippery slope.
In Kukkiwon Taekwondo (essentially the IBJJF of TKD) there is a “skip Dan” or process for promotion ahead of schedule for special circumstances. These should be reserved for true world champions, or other extraordinary instances, but is now an excuse for “Timmy 10 Year Old” to get his higher degree Black Belt for making the 5th Grade honor roll or some other equally irrelevant reason.
I’m a fan of maintaining mandatory minimums if only because most people will never stick around long enough to meet them I’m their heart isn’t in the training.
3. Black Belt Time in Rank vs Degree
Most martial arts fall into one of two categories related to belt rank. Either it is time based or curriculum based (or a combination).
BJJ as a whole tends to not follow a universal curriculum so time tends to make more sense to me. So whether or not an instructor is a 2nd Degree can become a matter of semantics. If an instructor received his Black Belt 10-12 years ago and has amassed some 20 years OF ACTIVITY, but was never awarded a stripe (degree) I believe most would accept him as capable to determine and promote a new BB.
Which returns us to the point of community standards being what had shielded BJJ from the McDojo-ism compared to other arts, up to this point.
1. While it is common in most other martial arts to be able to promote up to one rank below your own. However, BJJ is one of, if not the only martial art I’m aware of where you are ONLY a Black Belt then years later receive the 1st Degree (ie. In Taekwondo / Tang Soo Do, Karate) you are either a colored belt or a 1st Degree).
Therefore, following the “one rank below your own” method it would also require you to be a 2nd Degree prior to promoting someone else to BB
2. Yes, the community standard is something I’ve always appreciated about BJJ (aside from IBJJF rule) as it serves to prevent some issues often encountered in other arts. I use the previously provided example of Galvao (and I believe Grace Gundrum is applicable)… of course they are on a competitive level of BB, but as previously stated this does in fact create the slippery slope.
In Kukkiwon Taekwondo (essentially the IBJJF of TKD) there is a “skip Dan” or process for promotion ahead of schedule for special circumstances. These should be reserved for true world champions, or other extraordinary instances, but is now an excuse for “Timmy 10 Year Old” to get his higher degree Black Belt for making the 5th Grade honor roll or some other equally irrelevant reason.
I’m a fan of maintaining mandatory minimums if only because most people will never stick around long enough to meet them I’m their heart isn’t in the training.
3. Black Belt Time in Rank vs Degree
Most martial arts fall into one of two categories related to belt rank. Either it is time based or curriculum based (or a combination).
BJJ as a whole tends to not follow a universal curriculum so time tends to make more sense to me. So whether or not an instructor is a 2nd Degree can become a matter of semantics. If an instructor received his Black Belt 10-12 years ago and has amassed some 20 years OF ACTIVITY, but was never awarded a stripe (degree) I believe most would accept him as capable to determine and promote a new BB.
Which returns us to the point of community standards being what had shielded BJJ from the McDojo-ism compared to other arts, up to this point.
Edited 4 year(s) ago
DPBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
In the club where I train bjj in Tel Aviv, my two instructors are already third-degree legit black belts.
I have been in martial arts for over 30 years now, stil aging but not old ! I was a black belt in other martial arts when the BJJ first appeared in Israel.
There is really no regulation in bjj but there were usually two rules combined:
1) Only a second-degree black belt or higher can promote a trainee to black belt .
2) The one who promotes you must be in a senior belt compared to you.
These principles allowed me to meet world BJJ celebrities, Renzo Gracie, Royce Gracie and others, who came to Israel for the sake of promoting their students. The "bjj pioneers" in Israel 2004 were still blue and purple belts.
Today, Israel 2021, I still train in a club where there are already three third degree black belts ,some second degree black belts and once a week I can roll with a Coral belt trainee. Many bjj schools in Israel nowadays have GREAT coaches and more Israelis win bjj international competitions.
Surly everyone in Israel can probably find a coach who will rise above petty politics and help fellow bjj person with promotion issues.
Otherwise, one can attend a Bjj Globetrotters camp.
Best Wishes and Good luck.
I have been in martial arts for over 30 years now, stil aging but not old ! I was a black belt in other martial arts when the BJJ first appeared in Israel.
There is really no regulation in bjj but there were usually two rules combined:
1) Only a second-degree black belt or higher can promote a trainee to black belt .
2) The one who promotes you must be in a senior belt compared to you.
These principles allowed me to meet world BJJ celebrities, Renzo Gracie, Royce Gracie and others, who came to Israel for the sake of promoting their students. The "bjj pioneers" in Israel 2004 were still blue and purple belts.
Today, Israel 2021, I still train in a club where there are already three third degree black belts ,some second degree black belts and once a week I can roll with a Coral belt trainee. Many bjj schools in Israel nowadays have GREAT coaches and more Israelis win bjj international competitions.
Surly everyone in Israel can probably find a coach who will rise above petty politics and help fellow bjj person with promotion issues.
Otherwise, one can attend a Bjj Globetrotters camp.
Best Wishes and Good luck.
Edited 4 year(s) ago
THBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
I keep hearing „agreed upon standard“ wich might be fine and dandy. But we might agree that „that’s how we always did it“ does not constitute an actual argument.
So, can anyone articulate an actual argument why you would need two degrees (I.e. six years since your own Blackbelt promotion with not even the requirement of having actually trained since then) to promote a Blackbelt?
Can’t think of a single one.
So, can anyone articulate an actual argument why you would need two degrees (I.e. six years since your own Blackbelt promotion with not even the requirement of having actually trained since then) to promote a Blackbelt?
Can’t think of a single one.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
I keep hearing „agreed upon standard“ wich might be fine and dandy. But we might agree that „that’s how we always did it“ does not constitute an actual argument. So, can anyone articulate an actual argument why you would need two degrees (I.e. six years since your own Blackbelt promotion with not even the requirement of having actually trained since then) to promote a Blackbelt? Can’t think of a single one.
The entire belt system of BJJ is based on "that's how we always did it". If enough people agree that things are done in a certain way, then that's how it is. Outside of that, there is of course standards attempted to be defined by major "federations". And here on Beltchecker, we have a platform that allows community opinions on what we should agree the rules are on things like promotion.
You might as well say there's not a single argument for not adding pink, gray and yellow belts for adults.
You might as well say there's not a single argument for not adding pink, gray and yellow belts for adults.
THBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
The entire belt system of BJJ is based on "that's how we always did it". If enough people agree that things are done in a certain way, then that's how it is. Outside of that, there is of course standards attempted to be defined by major "federations". And here on Beltchecker, we have a platform that allows community opinions on what we should agree the rules are on things like promotion. You might as well say there's not a single argument for not adding pink, gray and yellow belts for adults.
What’s the threshold then? How many people do I have to find to change that rule?
Takes 1000 points here for Blackbelt approval, if I find ten 1st degree BBs to agree is that enough 😄
Takes 1000 points here for Blackbelt approval, if I find ten 1st degree BBs to agree is that enough 😄
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Usually it is common that on formal recognitions in hierarchical system one can not promote / mentor / recognise without a formal proven significant positive gap in knowledge / skill / experience.
E.g. you can not become a highschool teacher right after you graduate high school.
You can not give out army ranks right below you etc.
Also we generally approve that you can not just promote to the same belt as you are (e.g. blue belt can not and should not promote others to blue belt).
Hence I think the 2nd degree makes a lot of sense at least formally.
Now, is 6 years of being a black belt a good measure of that hypothetical knowledge gap between that BB and one soon-to-be BB? Definitely not, but what would it be then? Standardised criteria of coaching and competition results?
E.g. you can not become a highschool teacher right after you graduate high school.
You can not give out army ranks right below you etc.
Also we generally approve that you can not just promote to the same belt as you are (e.g. blue belt can not and should not promote others to blue belt).
Hence I think the 2nd degree makes a lot of sense at least formally.
Now, is 6 years of being a black belt a good measure of that hypothetical knowledge gap between that BB and one soon-to-be BB? Definitely not, but what would it be then? Standardised criteria of coaching and competition results?
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
What’s the threshold then? How many people do I have to find to change that rule? Takes 1000 points here for Blackbelt approval, if I find ten 1st degree BBs to agree is that enough 😄
Correct, the threshold is 1000 positive points. Downvotes are deducted of course, so it's very likely that if enough of the community disagrees with your experiment, you'll have more negative than positive points.
History here on the site shows that verifying a promotion from a 1st degree black belt is generally not happening.
History here on the site shows that verifying a promotion from a 1st degree black belt is generally not happening.
AXBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
The 6-year requirement before a black belt can promote another black belt isn’t about gatekeeping, it’s about protecting the art.
1. Earning a black belt shows technical mastery, but promoting others is another level of responsibility. The 2nd-degree requirement separates personal achievement from institutional responsibility.
2. Six years forces an instructor to experience the long cycle of developing students, not just a snapshot of technical skill. Without that, promotions risk being inflated, and standards collapse quickly.
3. Other martial arts rely on federations and fixed curriculums. BJJ doesn’t, which means time in grade is one of the few safeguards against McDojo-ism. It’s not flawless, and there will always be people who try to exploit it, but it slows down rank inflation and helps keep the art’s integrity intact.
4. A black belt promotion isn’t just about skill, it’s a lineage responsibility. Requiring a 2nd-degree keeps promotions tied to instructors who have stayed engaged long enough to demonstrate long-term commitment.
5. Just like a doctor doesn’t immediately become a board examiner, or a lawyer a judge, a brand-new black belt isn’t instantly qualified to define black belt standards for others. Time brings perspective.
Is it a perfect system? No. It has flaws, but it helps maintain the integrity of the martial art and prevents rapid dilution.
On a personal level, I do believe higher ranks should always be awarded by your instructor, and if you don’t have one, that’s a chance to find one. The process of learning never stops . That keeps the bond of lineage strong and avoids the rise of self-proclaimed masters who treat their belt rank as a tool to manipulate others rather than a responsibility to guide them and spread the art itself.
1. Earning a black belt shows technical mastery, but promoting others is another level of responsibility. The 2nd-degree requirement separates personal achievement from institutional responsibility.
2. Six years forces an instructor to experience the long cycle of developing students, not just a snapshot of technical skill. Without that, promotions risk being inflated, and standards collapse quickly.
3. Other martial arts rely on federations and fixed curriculums. BJJ doesn’t, which means time in grade is one of the few safeguards against McDojo-ism. It’s not flawless, and there will always be people who try to exploit it, but it slows down rank inflation and helps keep the art’s integrity intact.
4. A black belt promotion isn’t just about skill, it’s a lineage responsibility. Requiring a 2nd-degree keeps promotions tied to instructors who have stayed engaged long enough to demonstrate long-term commitment.
5. Just like a doctor doesn’t immediately become a board examiner, or a lawyer a judge, a brand-new black belt isn’t instantly qualified to define black belt standards for others. Time brings perspective.
Is it a perfect system? No. It has flaws, but it helps maintain the integrity of the martial art and prevents rapid dilution.
On a personal level, I do believe higher ranks should always be awarded by your instructor, and if you don’t have one, that’s a chance to find one. The process of learning never stops . That keeps the bond of lineage strong and avoids the rise of self-proclaimed masters who treat their belt rank as a tool to manipulate others rather than a responsibility to guide them and spread the art itself.
THBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
The 6-year requirement before a black belt can promote another black belt isn’t about gatekeeping, it’s about protecting the art. 1. Earning a black belt shows technical mastery, but promoting others is another level of responsibility. The 2nd-degree requirement separates personal achievement from institutional responsibility. 2. Six years forces an instructor to experience the long cycle of developing students, not just a snapshot of technical skill. Without that, promotions risk being inflated, and standards collapse quickly. 3. Other martial arts rely on federations and fixed curriculums. BJJ doesn’t, which means time in grade is one of the few safeguards against McDojo-ism. It’s not flawless, and there will always be people who try to exploit it, but it slows down rank inflation and helps keep the art’s integrity intact. 4. A black belt promotion isn’t just about skill, it’s a lineage responsibility. Requiring a 2nd-degree keeps promotions tied to instructors who have stayed engaged long enough to demonstrate long-term commitment. 5. Just like a doctor doesn’t immediately become a board examiner, or a lawyer a judge, a brand-new black belt isn’t instantly qualified to define black belt standards for others. Time brings perspective. Is it a perfect system? No. It has flaws, but it helps maintain the integrity of the martial art and prevents rapid dilution. On a personal level, I do believe higher ranks should always be awarded by your instructor, and if you don’t have one, that’s a chance to find one. The process of learning never stops . That keeps the bond of lineage strong and avoids the rise of self-proclaimed masters who treat their belt rank as a tool to manipulate others rather than a responsibility to guide them and spread the art itself.
Sorry, but that’s a whole lot of cope….
The two degrees standard was historically an ibjjf invention and doesn’t exist like that in other martial arts didn’t even exist in BJJ before.
You don’t have to teach or run an Academy to get your second degree. You literally only have to age. You don’t even have to have taught.
It’s arbitrary, grandfathered in without any substance, gatekeeping fine if that’s your standard but stop the cope.
The two degrees standard was historically an ibjjf invention and doesn’t exist like that in other martial arts didn’t even exist in BJJ before.
You don’t have to teach or run an Academy to get your second degree. You literally only have to age. You don’t even have to have taught.
It’s arbitrary, grandfathered in without any substance, gatekeeping fine if that’s your standard but stop the cope.
JCPurple beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
5. Just like a doctor doesn’t immediately become a board examiner, or a lawyer a judge, a brand-new black belt isn’t instantly qualified to define black belt standards for others. Time brings perspective.
But a doctor or lawyer doesn't just have to sit around for 6 years to become a board examiner or judge. They have to actually do something. They have to demonstrate that they can function at the top of their field, exercise good judgement in their practice, earn the respect of their peers, and commit themselves to the pursuit of excellence in the field through continuing education. Let's also remember that not every doctor or lawyer gets to become an examiner or judge. I suspect less than 1% of either field reach those offices. If BJJ employed similar standards to become a second degree black belt it would actually give some validity to both the rank and the requirement to achieve it to promote others, but we don't. Any schmuck can get a black belt and coast for 6 years, possibly having not trained a single time in those 6 years, and they are suddenly miracled into a position to promote others because they waited long enough.
If someone got a legit black belt and they have a brown belt training under them that all else being equal kicks their butt on a regular basis they are more than capable of recognizing that the brown belt more capable than they are and is deserving of promotion.
If someone got a legit black belt and they have a brown belt training under them that all else being equal kicks their butt on a regular basis they are more than capable of recognizing that the brown belt more capable than they are and is deserving of promotion.
THBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
God beware we’d actually use the ability to utilize the community to take into account the person promoting.
It’s just regurgitating ibjjf standards on a different platform.
Anything but actual merit. Just doubling down on the rulebook.
It’s just regurgitating ibjjf standards on a different platform.
Anything but actual merit. Just doubling down on the rulebook.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
God beware we’d actually use the ability to utilize the community to take into account the person promoting. It’s just regurgitating ibjjf standards on a different platform. Anything but actual merit. Just doubling down on the rulebook.
The platform is designed to allow anyone to vote by any standards they want. So if the community agreed that it required one single day as black belt to promote a black belt, then that would be the new standard.
It just happens that most people think second degree black belt is the requirement 🤷🏼♂️
It just happens that most people think second degree black belt is the requirement 🤷🏼♂️
THBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
The platform is designed to allow anyone to vote by any standards they want. So if the community agreed that it required one single day as black belt to promote a black belt, then that would be the new standard. It just happens that most people think second degree black belt is the requirement 🤷🏼♂️
I understand. And I made a suggestion for a better (in my mind) standard.
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
The two degrees standard was historically an ibjjf invention and doesn’t exist like that in other martial arts didn’t even exist in BJJ before.
It wasn't historically an IBJJF invention. Just like most of their standards, they took something that already existed and attempted to institutionalize it: they seek to "enforce it" and profit from a standard that's been around for a long time.
Also, in regard to other martial arts, promotions have a similar situation in Judo (at least in the US): shodan (1st black belt rank) are only allowed to be promoted by sandan (3rd degree). I don't know much about other martial arts, but I'd wager that it's similar.
I agree with you though, that we could come up with better criteria to advance in rank than to simply continue to stay living. Going back to Judo (from which the current BJJ belt system is modeled) you have to be active and actually do some shit to get your subsequent black belt promotions. In Judo, normally, one accumulates "points", which can be earned in a number of different ways: competing, teaching, doing katas, publishing literature/articles, refereeing, etc.
This is, in my opinion, a superior approach to promotions. When high-level, like, world-class Judoka "retire" from active competition, they normally are like 4+ degree BB's, as they should be! But even if you aren't a world class competitor, you can easily rack up some points just by staying active in and contributing to the community.
Also, in regard to other martial arts, promotions have a similar situation in Judo (at least in the US): shodan (1st black belt rank) are only allowed to be promoted by sandan (3rd degree). I don't know much about other martial arts, but I'd wager that it's similar.
I agree with you though, that we could come up with better criteria to advance in rank than to simply continue to stay living. Going back to Judo (from which the current BJJ belt system is modeled) you have to be active and actually do some shit to get your subsequent black belt promotions. In Judo, normally, one accumulates "points", which can be earned in a number of different ways: competing, teaching, doing katas, publishing literature/articles, refereeing, etc.
This is, in my opinion, a superior approach to promotions. When high-level, like, world-class Judoka "retire" from active competition, they normally are like 4+ degree BB's, as they should be! But even if you aren't a world class competitor, you can easily rack up some points just by staying active in and contributing to the community.
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
can anyone articulate an actual argument why you would need two degrees (I.e. six years since your own Blackbelt promotion with not even the requirement of having actually trained since then) to promote a Blackbelt? Can’t think of a single one.
I don't think it's that bad of an idea, tbh. In this way, you're forced to get at least a second opinion, assuming you don't have the credentials to rank as high as you would like. Sure, the time-based BB degrees could definitely be modified, as I discussed in my last post, but I think it's OK that only 2nd+ degrees can rank to BB.
I can say that from personal experience, having "needed" to rank some of my students, prior to my black belt, it was really nice to bring in someone who is a black belt, and could also help confirm/deny feelings and attitudes toward promotions that I may have otherwise maybe not been aware of. I think promotions are a serious thing in BJJ, so I want to make sure I'm making the right decision.
Ultimately, it's a kind of checks-and-balances that could definitely probably stand to be modified, but I do think it (mostly) works as designed.
I haven't had the need to promote any of my students to BB yet, but if that happens before I'm a 2nd degree, I'm actually kind of glad, for myself and my student, that I have to have another expert's opinion who is willing to sign their name to the promotion.
I can say that from personal experience, having "needed" to rank some of my students, prior to my black belt, it was really nice to bring in someone who is a black belt, and could also help confirm/deny feelings and attitudes toward promotions that I may have otherwise maybe not been aware of. I think promotions are a serious thing in BJJ, so I want to make sure I'm making the right decision.
Ultimately, it's a kind of checks-and-balances that could definitely probably stand to be modified, but I do think it (mostly) works as designed.
I haven't had the need to promote any of my students to BB yet, but if that happens before I'm a 2nd degree, I'm actually kind of glad, for myself and my student, that I have to have another expert's opinion who is willing to sign their name to the promotion.
JABlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Luckily I've been approved here, though got my black belt from regular black belts after training 16 years.
Would be interesting to know would Moneyberg be verified here, as Jake Shields isn't a second degree black belt by the record but has been a black belt for a decade I think. I base my votes on observable skill, so couldn't verify him.
You can have a fancy car, but if you don't know how to drive, it's meaningless. Same goes for black belt, if you can't carry it on the mats, it's meaningless. It's like a belt bought with money, no guts, no glory and big group of people giving him no respect, just pity and laugh.
It's funny to think when Christian promoted someone "too early", is it valid as there were higher belts present. I think not, it's valid due to Christian having enough credibility on the matter.
Validity of a belt is measured on the mats, IMHO. I learned the second degree rule first time in here after being a second degree black belt already, so I wouldn't say it was common knowledge. Finnish BJJ federation accepted my promotions and IBJJF have also accepted promotions done by less than second degree at some point, so apparently it wasn't written in stone in there either.
Would be interesting to know would Moneyberg be verified here, as Jake Shields isn't a second degree black belt by the record but has been a black belt for a decade I think. I base my votes on observable skill, so couldn't verify him.
You can have a fancy car, but if you don't know how to drive, it's meaningless. Same goes for black belt, if you can't carry it on the mats, it's meaningless. It's like a belt bought with money, no guts, no glory and big group of people giving him no respect, just pity and laugh.
It's funny to think when Christian promoted someone "too early", is it valid as there were higher belts present. I think not, it's valid due to Christian having enough credibility on the matter.
Validity of a belt is measured on the mats, IMHO. I learned the second degree rule first time in here after being a second degree black belt already, so I wouldn't say it was common knowledge. Finnish BJJ federation accepted my promotions and IBJJF have also accepted promotions done by less than second degree at some point, so apparently it wasn't written in stone in there either.
JABlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
I think only things making sure belts stay in a standard are competitions and open mats. No amount of requirements on who can give a belt can come even close.
We organize 2 open mats every weekend and I urge my people to visit other gyms as often as possible. Keeps everyone honest on their skill level.
We organize 2 open mats every weekend and I urge my people to visit other gyms as often as possible. Keeps everyone honest on their skill level.
OHBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
These rigid standards put me in a bad position.
long story short : I started BJJ over 20 years ago. I competed in GI, grappling, and amateur MMA at a time when few people knew about these sports.
I quickly had to create something to be able to train without traveling millions of miles, and I quickly realized that these affiliation issues were also business-oriented.
So I waited a long time between my graduations, which I obtained through meeting great people and seminars.
I was finally graduated black belt after almost 20 years of practice and 15 years of teaching.
Now I have a situation where there are guys who have been training with me for 15 years, and I can't give them their black belts...I have to wait another 5 years (+/-)
-i understand that this can keep the standard about belt legitimity
-i understand that giving a black belt to my student to help our team is not something lot of people will agree with
so i simply thing that in a specific case like mine these standard can be silly
long story short : I started BJJ over 20 years ago. I competed in GI, grappling, and amateur MMA at a time when few people knew about these sports.
I quickly had to create something to be able to train without traveling millions of miles, and I quickly realized that these affiliation issues were also business-oriented.
So I waited a long time between my graduations, which I obtained through meeting great people and seminars.
I was finally graduated black belt after almost 20 years of practice and 15 years of teaching.
Now I have a situation where there are guys who have been training with me for 15 years, and I can't give them their black belts...I have to wait another 5 years (+/-)
-i understand that this can keep the standard about belt legitimity
-i understand that giving a black belt to my student to help our team is not something lot of people will agree with
so i simply thing that in a specific case like mine these standard can be silly
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Now I have a situation where there are guys who have been training with me for 15 years, and I can't give them their black belts...I have to wait another 5 years (+/-)
I have a similar background to yours. What's stopping you from having Wim or someone else just cosign on these promotions, if you really need to do them?
OHBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
I have a similar background to yours. What's stopping you from having Wim or someone else just cosign on these promotions, if you really need to do them?
it's my idea and i need to talk to him but he barely know these 2 guys, so.. as i said it's delicate to ask
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
it's my idea and i need to talk to him but he barely know these 2 guys, so.. as i said it's delicate to ask
Well, if he says no, it looks like you're pretty centrally located in Belgium. There are probably at least 100 qualified 2nd+ degree BB's within a 300km radius of Charleroi. I can't imagine there wouldn't be at least one of them willing to cosign on your promotions.
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
I've read these claims and answered many times before. Ever since I started training BJJ, in the mid 90:s, there has been a 2:nd degree or higher equivalent standard. I.e. years before IBJJF existed. Before the 2:nd degree standard, it was basically only the well known team patriarchs who did the promoting, so the 2:nd degree standard is if anything less than this.
A challenge to you all (it's been issued before): Try to find someone on Beltchecker with lineage with a <2:nd degree BB promoting someone else to BB in the early 90:s or earlier.
Difficult enough (almost impossible, Fadda lineages excluded?) to find a lineage with a promotion from the early 90:s or earlier who isn't very well known today. The basis for the belt system we have today is from 1967, so with an equal amount of time for a stripe (even if they didn't really only count time, as today) and second degree before promoting (already stated that it would in practice be more than that), that would mean that those promoted to BB in 1967 would themselves be able to promote to BB in 1973 and have up to three more generations of BB:s legit to promote to BB by 1991. Can we really see the expected number of BB:s actually promoting others in the early 90:s?
I don't think a >6 years after BB equivalent standard is the only explanation there, but there sure wasn't a day-you-got-your-BB-standard.
A challenge to you all (it's been issued before): Try to find someone on Beltchecker with lineage with a <2:nd degree BB promoting someone else to BB in the early 90:s or earlier.
Difficult enough (almost impossible, Fadda lineages excluded?) to find a lineage with a promotion from the early 90:s or earlier who isn't very well known today. The basis for the belt system we have today is from 1967, so with an equal amount of time for a stripe (even if they didn't really only count time, as today) and second degree before promoting (already stated that it would in practice be more than that), that would mean that those promoted to BB in 1967 would themselves be able to promote to BB in 1973 and have up to three more generations of BB:s legit to promote to BB by 1991. Can we really see the expected number of BB:s actually promoting others in the early 90:s?
I don't think a >6 years after BB equivalent standard is the only explanation there, but there sure wasn't a day-you-got-your-BB-standard.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
it's my idea and i need to talk to him but he barely know these 2 guys, so.. as i said it's delicate to ask
Just be straight up with him and ask.
Does not hurt to ask and he may be willing to do it in your presence and sign off on them.
If he says no, you are back to where you were anyway.
Does not hurt to ask and he may be willing to do it in your presence and sign off on them.
If he says no, you are back to where you were anyway.
JCPurple beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
I've read these claims and answered many times before. Ever since I started training BJJ, in the mid 90:s, there has been a 2:nd degree or higher equivalent standard. I.e. years before IBJJF existed.
The IBJJF didn't exist, but the Gracies did and that's where the IBJJF came from. Based on that, it seems reasonable that the 2nd degree requirement was an IBJJF requirement before there was an IBJJF simply because that's what the Gracies did. Just because the Gracies did it doesn't make it right.
JFBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
It has been interesting reading through this thread. While I know the initial post was asking about legitimacy of being able to promote another to black belt, the issue of stripes/degrees on black belts has come up a lot.
For me, I have never been focused on the stripes on my black belt. They were put there by my professors when they decided to put them there, and some of mine have been after what would be considered time served. I personally will never add a stripe to my own belt for time served, it just doesn't really matter to me. I've always appreciated that my professor took the time to give me some recognition, but I've never felt my stripes meant anything more on my black belt than someone else's.
I suppose it matters to those that want to promote others to black belt if they want to follow the 2 stripe guidelines, but outside of that, what does it really matter? I saw a video of someone asking Fabio Gurgel what it takes to achieve a coral belt. His reply, "just don't die." Haha!
For me, I have never been focused on the stripes on my black belt. They were put there by my professors when they decided to put them there, and some of mine have been after what would be considered time served. I personally will never add a stripe to my own belt for time served, it just doesn't really matter to me. I've always appreciated that my professor took the time to give me some recognition, but I've never felt my stripes meant anything more on my black belt than someone else's.
I suppose it matters to those that want to promote others to black belt if they want to follow the 2 stripe guidelines, but outside of that, what does it really matter? I saw a video of someone asking Fabio Gurgel what it takes to achieve a coral belt. His reply, "just don't die." Haha!
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
I personally will never add a stripe to my own belt for time served
I also feel weird about adding a stripe to my own belt, even if I may claim time served stripes on here, or pay the extortion fees to ibjjf.
I still have a good relationship with my promoting professor, and I've decided while I'll continue claiming stripes on paper, I'm not going to actually put a stripe on my belt unless he does it.
For me, the stripes/time is primarily for autonomy.
I still have a good relationship with my promoting professor, and I've decided while I'll continue claiming stripes on paper, I'm not going to actually put a stripe on my belt unless he does it.
For me, the stripes/time is primarily for autonomy.
JFBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
I also feel weird about adding a stripe to my own belt, even if I may claim time served stripes on here, or pay the extortion fees to ibjjf. I still have a good relationship with my promoting professor, and I've decided while I'll continue claiming stripes on paper, I'm not going to actually put a stripe on my belt unless he does it. For me, the stripes/time is primarily for autonomy.
I also have a very strong feeling that you will have a 4th degree black belt training at your place soon. So.... ;)
