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Question on Lineage
1 year(s) ago • 1092 views • 5 replies
PGBlue beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
I know I'm still blue and nobody will care about my lineage for some time yet, but I'm curious about how I would declare it if I ever get to the point where it becomes important. The other post about lineage being erased spurred the thought, but I didn't want to hijack that thread.
My coach is originally from Brazil and trained with a pretty well-known competitor and instructor, from whom he originally received his black belt. At some point they had a falling out (gasp) and my coach moved here to the US. Not sure what the exact order of those events are, but he says he was "orphaned" for a little while before meeting another pretty well known competitor based in the US and joining his affiliation, which is where we are today. My coach got his third degree earlier this year from the head of the affiliation, and I'm pretty sure he got his second the same way, which is technically the authority on which he awards black belts of his own.
All of this happened before I started training, so my question is what I should do if I wanted to put together my lineage. Go through the present day affiliation with the "official" lineage as it's been for my whole time training, or walk back to the time when the black belt was originally awarded and declare the history of what formed the foundation and basis of understanding of BJJ in the person who is passing that along to me?
My coach is originally from Brazil and trained with a pretty well-known competitor and instructor, from whom he originally received his black belt. At some point they had a falling out (gasp) and my coach moved here to the US. Not sure what the exact order of those events are, but he says he was "orphaned" for a little while before meeting another pretty well known competitor based in the US and joining his affiliation, which is where we are today. My coach got his third degree earlier this year from the head of the affiliation, and I'm pretty sure he got his second the same way, which is technically the authority on which he awards black belts of his own.
All of this happened before I started training, so my question is what I should do if I wanted to put together my lineage. Go through the present day affiliation with the "official" lineage as it's been for my whole time training, or walk back to the time when the black belt was originally awarded and declare the history of what formed the foundation and basis of understanding of BJJ in the person who is passing that along to me?
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
All of this happened before I started training, so my question is what I should do if I wanted to put together my lineage.
Even at blue belt, your lineage does matter. It's just an old-school checks-and-balances to make sure you just didn't appear out of nowhere wearing a blue belt, but it's also kind of cool to trace your "family tree", so to speak, up to the creator of Judo.
I'm in kind of a similar situation to yours: my promoting BB has since broken with his original promoting instructor, but ultimately, he's still a Joe Moreira BB, and if I, for some reason break with Rich (my promoting BB) that won't mean I'm not a Rich Sab BB. Basically, at least from my POV, you're kind of stuck with whoever gave you your last belt, as far as declaring a lineage is concerned.
I'm in kind of a similar situation to yours: my promoting BB has since broken with his original promoting instructor, but ultimately, he's still a Joe Moreira BB, and if I, for some reason break with Rich (my promoting BB) that won't mean I'm not a Rich Sab BB. Basically, at least from my POV, you're kind of stuck with whoever gave you your last belt, as far as declaring a lineage is concerned.
EHBlack beltVerified
11 month(s) ago
Yea it's still good to actually show your lineage be it their still teaching and training or not so tracks your legitimacy if need be for future Bjj records.
BVBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
10 month(s) ago
In the past, it was a solid way to track legitimacy, but today it's no longer an effective approach given how much the sport has evolved. It's essentially just about which gym you happen to walk into and the lineage you receive. I believe the BeltChecker system offers a much better alternative to traditional lineages.
ARBlack beltVerified
10 month(s) ago
In the past, it was a solid way to track legitimacy, but today it's no longer an effective approach given how much the sport has evolved. It's essentially just about which gym you happen to walk into and the lineage you receive. I believe the BeltChecker system offers a much better alternative to traditional lineages.
Right? I have no idea why Johan has such a hard on for it. To each their own I guess...
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
10 month(s) ago
Why wouldn't you as a BB be able to inform your promoted students
A) Who promoted you to zero degree BB and when (plus their lineage)
B) Who you currently identify as your lineage instructor?
If they aren't the same, A is the one I personally care about and it makes no difference if the second degree BB came from time-served through IBJJF or Beltchecker or was awarded personally from someone legit.
A first degree BB took you all the way up to BB but the promotion was formally from a 2:nd degree BB who just evaluated you over a weekend seminar and on trust on your every day instructor? Still A I need to know for the BB promotion.
Unfortunately, there have been examples of high ranking instructors awarding stripes on BB without doing any due diligence on the previous BB promotion and if it was even legit, so just a 2:nd degree BB from someone and no transparent BB history before that is not of much value in my eyes.
It's not a perfect system, but it sure adds an element of accountability and an actual cost of faking your promotions or giving out non deserved ranks for money(berg) or what ever other reason. And for old schoolers like myself, I actually question if it's even BJJ if it doesn't have a lineage (type A). Even if it would be able to kick my old school ass :-)
A) Who promoted you to zero degree BB and when (plus their lineage)
B) Who you currently identify as your lineage instructor?
If they aren't the same, A is the one I personally care about and it makes no difference if the second degree BB came from time-served through IBJJF or Beltchecker or was awarded personally from someone legit.
A first degree BB took you all the way up to BB but the promotion was formally from a 2:nd degree BB who just evaluated you over a weekend seminar and on trust on your every day instructor? Still A I need to know for the BB promotion.
Unfortunately, there have been examples of high ranking instructors awarding stripes on BB without doing any due diligence on the previous BB promotion and if it was even legit, so just a 2:nd degree BB from someone and no transparent BB history before that is not of much value in my eyes.
It's not a perfect system, but it sure adds an element of accountability and an actual cost of faking your promotions or giving out non deserved ranks for money(berg) or what ever other reason. And for old schoolers like myself, I actually question if it's even BJJ if it doesn't have a lineage (type A). Even if it would be able to kick my old school ass :-)
