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"American Jiu-jitsu": What's Your Take?
4 month(s) ago • 803 views • 41 replies
PFBlack beltVerified
4 month(s) ago
That didn't answer the question at all. Also Masahiko Kimura did not even close to invent the movement. Catch wrestlers were doing it before he was even born. I'm sure it was done long before they did it too. So again, how can you define each martial art when they have overlapping movements unless you involve rule sets?
I have heard of Russians using “Judo wrestling” and “Sambo wrestling,” along with the Olympic styles.
Truly, these are all styles of wrestling. What defines them are rule sets, uniform, language, mat culture, ranking systems, and I’m likely missing some.
Generally speaking, there are two “styles”, striking and wrestling. Their identities arise due to a myriad of factors (isolation, local culture, cross pollination, etc).
Truly, these are all styles of wrestling. What defines them are rule sets, uniform, language, mat culture, ranking systems, and I’m likely missing some.
Generally speaking, there are two “styles”, striking and wrestling. Their identities arise due to a myriad of factors (isolation, local culture, cross pollination, etc).
PFBlack beltVerified
4 month(s) ago
If I show someone a kimura. Is that a judo move, jiu jitsu move, or catch wrestling move? How can you define each martial art when they have overlapping movements unless you involve rule sets?
I taught a “Judo For BJJ” class for years. But, when asked about ranking people, I always stated that what we were doing was Jiu Jitsu. Yes, the class was takedown heavy, but it was geared towards Jiu Jitsu, and therefore is Jiu Jitsu.
You see this in Judo with various folk wrestling techniques (Khabareli becomes obi tori gaeshi). Once the technique becomes modified for another art/sport, it becomes that.
You see this in Judo with various folk wrestling techniques (Khabareli becomes obi tori gaeshi). Once the technique becomes modified for another art/sport, it becomes that.
JMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
4 month(s) ago
Throughout the history of mankind, unarmed combat is simplified into a few tasks to create a single objective. The tasks are primarily (perhaps exclusively) strike, slam, choke, break, bite, and gouge with the sole purpose of injury and incapacitation. We can break that down even more simplified and call is striking and grappling. Historically, it seems most if not all cultures have some recorded system of both.
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Whether it is based on rules of play or systemized prioritization for individual marketing we get the "style" of training and expression. Add the philosophy of the "styles founder", and a splash of national ideology and there you have it... enough to separate and argue about for an eternity.
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If you look at the striking styles like Muay Thai, Karate, Taekwondo... they all poses roughly the same techniques. The only things really separating them are training priority, national identity and rules of expression. The same is true for grappling arts as you can find most of the same throws, pins, locks, and chokes throughout the history of most cultures then they get prioritized expression based on individual stylistic preferences and national ideology.
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All in all, call it whatever you want, but in the end it is all just striking and grappling!
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Whether it is based on rules of play or systemized prioritization for individual marketing we get the "style" of training and expression. Add the philosophy of the "styles founder", and a splash of national ideology and there you have it... enough to separate and argue about for an eternity.
.
If you look at the striking styles like Muay Thai, Karate, Taekwondo... they all poses roughly the same techniques. The only things really separating them are training priority, national identity and rules of expression. The same is true for grappling arts as you can find most of the same throws, pins, locks, and chokes throughout the history of most cultures then they get prioritized expression based on individual stylistic preferences and national ideology.
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All in all, call it whatever you want, but in the end it is all just striking and grappling!
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
4 month(s) ago
Have to read carefuly and folow the logic in there. They are martial arts first. Definition of Martial Arts: The word martial comes from Mars, the Roman god of war. Martial arts were created for combat, survival, self-defense, discipline, and the study of human conflict. They were never originally designed as sports. Over time, some martial arts developed a sportive side — with rules, points, and competition — but their roots remain martial. That is why we call them martial arts: they are arts of combat first, sports second (if at all). It was my opinion, but I didn't invent this. It's fact.
So now you are deciding what the definition of a word is based on it's roots? Wow, I'm not sure where to start with how that's not how language works. The definition of a word is based on it's current context. Let's use the same example I used above.
The word "truck" is derived from the Greek word for wheel (trokhos). But in the modern day, "truck" does not mean "wheel".
Brittanica has the word "Martial Art" defined as; "any of various fighting sports or skills, mainly of East Asian origin, such as kung fu (Pinyin gongfu), judo, karate, and kendō."
Merriam Webster has it defined as "any of several arts of combat and self-defense (such as karate and judo) that are widely practiced as sport."
The word "truck" is derived from the Greek word for wheel (trokhos). But in the modern day, "truck" does not mean "wheel".
Brittanica has the word "Martial Art" defined as; "any of various fighting sports or skills, mainly of East Asian origin, such as kung fu (Pinyin gongfu), judo, karate, and kendō."
Merriam Webster has it defined as "any of several arts of combat and self-defense (such as karate and judo) that are widely practiced as sport."
RBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
4 month(s) ago
So now you are deciding what the definition of a word is based on it's roots? Wow, I'm not sure where to start with how that's not how language works. The definition of a word is based on it's current context. Let's use the same example I used above. The word "truck" is derived from the Greek word for wheel (trokhos). But in the modern day, "truck" does not mean "wheel". Brittanica has the word "Martial Art" defined as; "any of various fighting sports or skills, mainly of East Asian origin, such as kung fu (Pinyin gongfu), judo, karate, and kendō." Merriam Webster has it defined as "any of several arts of combat and self-defense (such as karate and judo) that are widely practiced as sport."
No need to take it so hard on yourself. I was pointing out some principles for a better understanding. It seems to me you did not understand what I was trying to say and judged too soon.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
4 month(s) ago
No need to take it so hard on yourself. I was pointing out some principles for a better understanding. It seems to me you did not understand what I was trying to say and judged too soon.
Could be, my apologies if so.
RBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
4 month(s) ago
Could be, my apologies if so.
Respect brother. I truly appreciate your message and the spirit behind it. Messages come and go, but intention and character always stand out.
PGBlue beltVerified
4 month(s) ago
I realized today that I know the answer. If you have air conditioning in your gym, you might be doing American Jiu Jitsu. If someone tries to put a fan in the door and your coach yells "Turn that off, I want to sweat!" then you are doing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
VBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
4 month(s) ago
I realized today that I know the answer. If you have air conditioning in your gym, you might be doing American Jiu Jitsu. If someone tries to put a fan in the door and your coach yells "Turn that off, I want to sweat!" then you are doing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
True that. My professor never turns on the AC
RBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
4 month(s) ago
I realized today that I know the answer. If you have air conditioning in your gym, you might be doing American Jiu Jitsu. If someone tries to put a fan in the door and your coach yells "Turn that off, I want to sweat!" then you are doing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
I have to tell you that, surprisingly, you are 100% right. This detail is the key, and it has proven to be remarkably reliable. I can already confirm it within our academy. :)
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
3 month(s) ago
True that. My professor never turns on the AC
That's nothing.
When we took toilet paper out of the bathrooms, and insisted that people hone their technique, only the most committed players remained.
(Avoid getting caught in Kimuras from their top north south position...)
When we took toilet paper out of the bathrooms, and insisted that people hone their technique, only the most committed players remained.
(Avoid getting caught in Kimuras from their top north south position...)
IBlack beltVerified
3 month(s) ago
Relevant video. https://www.reddit.com/r/[...]VmniaKETnj
