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Belts: What do they mean to you? Skill, time, or performance.

5 month(s) ago • 2401 views • 100 replies

Joe Cavett
Joe Cavett
Purple beltVerified433 forum posts4005/400
5 month(s) ago
I found that site too, but it just says "TBD" (to be disclosed) on who promoted Kadu Sousa to BB and no evidence is anywhere to be found showing Kadu being promoted to BB and when. I have a lead of someone who might have promoted him, but would really recommend you try to find that and gather evidence yourselves. You can otherwise still use Beltchecker to document your journey simply by removing e.g. all blue belt info and you get an unvoteable profile, which might be advantegous when there e.g. is no real lineage present. But if you are willing to put in the work, I actually think there might be evidence to be gathered here.
I'm not disputing the rank of anyone in that lineage, just diving down the rabbit hole. If the promotion of Sousa can't be confirmed, that also removes everyone above him from the lineage. With the huge growth of BJJ around the world the last 30 years I think we are going to see more and more incomplete lineages because the information simply isn't there. The last 30 years have also seen the rise of the internet and we've all gotten used to having information readily available at our fingertips. We have to remember that if nothing is put on the internet we will not find it there, and that is likely the case for a lot of early practitioners that were not deeply involved in the BJJ scene beyond just training. How many people are out there that are/were legit black belts that never had an online presence and basically no longer exist in the BJJ world other than through the memories of others? At some point we as a community are going to have to accept these discrepancies and rely on performance more than lineage to verify rank.
Johan
Johan
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified1401 forum posts11370/1000
5 month(s) ago
I'm not disputing the rank of anyone in that lineage, just diving down the rabbit hole. If the promotion of Sousa can't be confirmed, that also removes everyone above him from the lineage. With the huge growth of BJJ around the world the last 30 years I think we are going to see more and more incomplete lineages because the information simply isn't there. The last 30 years have also seen the rise of the internet and we've all gotten used to having information readily available at our fingertips. We have to remember that if nothing is put on the internet we will not find it there, and that is likely the case for a lot of early practitioners that were not deeply involved in the BJJ scene beyond just training. How many people are out there that are/were legit black belts that never had an online presence and basically no longer exist in the BJJ world other than through the memories of others? At some point we as a community are going to have to accept these discrepancies and rely on performance more than lineage to verify rank.
We might (or might not) also accept "Lineage: Youtube" ;-)

In all cases with "broken lineage", if they are legit, they could just co-promote the next generation together with a verifiable 2:nd degree BB with legit lineage and there won't be a problem in the future and everyone will live happy in perfect harmony.

I would say most "broken lineages" are still salvageable, with a little interest and hard work from the people of that lineage. Not checking and knowing your lineage in itself is a bit of a red flag that can't just be nullified by the old "I prefer to put my time on the mat and let it speak for it self!". While if you are willing to put in the effort, NOW is the best time, before all us with actual lineages are dead and buried :-)
William Murphy
William Murphy
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts25730/1000
5 month(s) ago
I'm not disputing the rank of anyone in that lineage, just diving down the rabbit hole. If the promotion of Sousa can't be confirmed, that also removes everyone above him from the lineage. With the huge growth of BJJ around the world the last 30 years I think we are going to see more and more incomplete lineages because the information simply isn't there. The last 30 years have also seen the rise of the internet and we've all gotten used to having information readily available at our fingertips. We have to remember that if nothing is put on the internet we will not find it there, and that is likely the case for a lot of early practitioners that were not deeply involved in the BJJ scene beyond just training. How many people are out there that are/were legit black belts that never had an online presence and basically no longer exist in the BJJ world other than through the memories of others? At some point we as a community are going to have to accept these discrepancies and rely on performance more than lineage to verify rank.
It's a good point.

When I started training, nobody had emails, no Internet, and a home printer was a big deal, as was a home computer, really.

That all came, but not all at once, and certainly with variable execution or use of any of it.
Robert
Robert
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified53 forum posts1565/1000
4 month(s) ago
Belts: What do they mean to you? Skill, time, or performance.

Could it be that a belt in Bjj is the recognition of a level of skill, like a form of reward?
Robert
Robert
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified53 forum posts1565/1000
4 month(s) ago
Flavio Behring even went full circle to wearing a white belt again (but with a red bar) after 70 years of Jiu Jitsu to show he is an eternal apprentice: https://youtu.be/3IsMzldd[...]oOgzro-YXp
Flavio Behring is my Master. He is one of the most fascinating people I have ever met, and I am not easily impressed.

It is a thicker white (with red) belt. It has meaning. It has a story. To truly understand it, one needs to study and research deeply. Only then does it start to make sense.
Eric Van Vaerenbergh
Eric Van Vaerenbergh
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified92 forum posts18110/1000
4 month(s) ago
Osu Robert-San, Grande Mestre Flavio Behring is a legend, a true Budōka and a gentleman. His knowledge is amazing! Big Osu from the sunny city of Blankenberge at the Belgian coast:)
Robert
Robert
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified53 forum posts1565/1000
4 month(s) ago
Osu Robert-San, Grande Mestre Flavio Behring is a legend, a true Budōka and a gentleman. His knowledge is amazing! Big Osu from the sunny city of Blankenberge at the Belgian coast:)
Eric, long time no see. Beginning of June, we'll have the Master with us in Brussels. Do you want to come with your students?
Mirco
Mirco
Brown beltVerified805 forum posts5075/700
1 month(s) ago
This was a good video and helped me make sense of some things I’m going through.
Yeah, she really explained it well, that the belts are not a fixed point, but rather graphs where are areas overlapping in relation of skill, like especially from white to blue, blue to purple, purple to brown…..
Made lots of sense to me!

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