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How is this an alternative to IBJJF?

6 year(s) ago • 209467 views • 216 replies

Aris
Aris
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified60 forum posts5355/1000
5 year(s) ago
Didn’t IBJJF change that to 3rd degree?
If the Athlete has never registered prior to brown or black belt then you need 3rd degree. I don’t know if that has changed a bit in past year or 2. But that’s what I noticed a while back before my 3rd degree. While I was able to sign for a student about his BB promotion, I couldn’t sign for another student that never competed or registered prior to BB the system required a 3rd or more. Don’t know exactly how it works now. But I think it was a good rule.
Anthony Kell
Anthony Kell
Black beltVerified25 forum posts2465/1000
5 year(s) ago
I'm thankful that people do vote for others based on their page content, competition records, videos, photos etc. My coach is a 5th degree black belt that has trained for 30 years and I doubt he will ever participate on a site like this. He doesn't care much for IBJJF either but likes that I compete and represent his academy. I found the only way I was able to get verified was to private message black belts and ask for help. It's really the only option I had and my profile is one of the most complete on here with 50 matches posted, videos of matches, promotion photos and others. Although for some reason the video links to Youtube do not work anymore but anyone could google my name and get to my content that way. I'm a big supporter of globetrotters/beltchecker but I'm not sure the value of this service yet other than Jiu Jitsu networking. If I wasn't verified I would still be competing and my journey will continue as planned. Maybe if I eventually started my own school it could be helpful but technically how valid is my verification since I have never rolled or trained with anyone that voted for me. Most competitors I have competed against at Pans, Worlds and other tournaments are not on here but they are definitely legit in my opinion. I'm doing beltchecker just in case it is needed at some point and it is fun interacting with the group. If beltchecker in the future is required to compete or to be considered legit than doesn't it just become similar to organizations like the IBJJF
Joshua Peters
Joshua Peters
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified4 forum posts2135/1000
5 year(s) ago
I have verified many on the 'back of photos' or through other trusted members verification as well. After reading so many posts about members disapproval of these types of verifications it has me thinking of withdrawing a bunch of votes. It is true someone can take photos with a gi on and a belt etc at a seminar or whatever. I know my instructor won't take photos like that anymore for this very reason. I check social media and even do web searches, check their academy web pages looking for a chink in the armor. I've even messaged a few black belts on facebook messenger that I do not know that were listed as coaches to get verification too. I thought that was the whole point of this site. You see a profile, you do some research and you vote on whether you believe they are legitimate in their claim or not. If you know them or can easily find out if they are legit than even better. If it were only based on people who know the practitioner directly the majority of people on here, legit people, would not be verified at all or at least it would take a very long time. Of course everyone can do what they like but perhaps when receiving a vote from an unknown person that is willing to vote for their profile, they should politely message them and ask them to rescind their vote for the sake of their personal view of how this site should work. This way they can keep their integrity intact. :-) Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.
I personally have never verified someone I do not know in real life and have rolled with or reffed in competition. As with any system, it comes down to the integrity of it's participants.
R. David Gonzalez
R. David Gonzalez
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4791 forum posts34845/1000
5 year(s) ago
I personally have never verified someone I do not know in real life and have rolled with or reffed in competition. As with any system, it comes down to the integrity of it's participants.
This site doesn't legitimize anyone. Our verification is worth nothing in the real world. Only their instructor can verify them legitimately.
Here we just look over their profile, photos and certificates and cast a vote on whether we believe they are legitimate or not.
Your vote, like mine has no real value in that regard. Of course looking at peoples profiles and social media has been helpful in pointing out obvious discrepancies but does not really change anything.
Tyler McKeag
Tyler McKeag
Black belt 1st degreeVerified35 forum posts1560/1000
5 year(s) ago
This site doesn't legitimize anyone. Our verification is worth nothing in the real world. Only their instructor can verify them legitimately. Here we just look over their profile, photos and certificates and cast a vote on whether we believe they are legitimate or not. Your vote, like mine has no real value in that regard. Of course looking at peoples profiles and social media has been helpful in pointing out obvious discrepancies but does not really change anything.
I think that's a great way to look at it. You can only vote on what you can see, outside of the site it's up to their coach and BJJ community.

Joshua Peters
Joshua Peters
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified4 forum posts2135/1000
5 year(s) ago
I mean, ultimately you could say that even your own instructors areification doesn't mean much. It's not like there's a standardized practice to gaining a belt
Philip Dunlap
Philip Dunlap
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified1044 forum posts60435/1000
5 year(s) ago
I honestly don't look at it as an alternative..

I know many Black belts who do not register themselves with the IBJJF or for that matter register their schools as they are not interested in competing there.. The IBJJF may be high level competition but they charge a lot to compete and and their fees for everything are expensive..

I love to compete and want my guys to have access so I am a member and I got the school registration too..

When I promote guys many who are not interested in competing or do not plan to compete in the IBJJF don't register their belts and if they do at a higher level it causes them problems.. Take for instance you have not registered until Black Belt you need a a 5th of higher to promote you and even then you are a provisional Black Belt'' To me the only thing that matters is the person who gave me the belt.

The IBJJF is just a bureaucracy that rune very expensive tournaments.. I prefer the SJJIF/NABJJF they are less expensive, treat you with respect and let Black Belts compete for free..

I think this is a great thing for people who run schools and don't really care about "Certifications" so that people looking into them can get a little consensus on the opinions of a persons peers.. If you have a lot of hight level people saying the guy is good it helps you at least make a better educated opinion
R. David Gonzalez
R. David Gonzalez
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4791 forum posts34845/1000
5 year(s) ago
I mean, ultimately you could say that even your own instructors areification doesn't mean much. It's not like there's a standardized practice to gaining a belt
I agree, and that is the problem in Jiu Jitsu.
Sylvio Behring was trying to get it standardized like Judo but then nothing was ever heard about it again. He wanted all black belt promotions to require a written test as well as a demonstration/test in front of a committee if my memory serves correctly. I could be wrong about the written test. He also wanted the self defense to be part of it. Many would be against that (self defense portion) from what I read in the forums.
It would be a huge undertaking but if all practitioners and instructors get behind it, it could work.

Tyler McKeag
Tyler McKeag
Black belt 1st degreeVerified35 forum posts1560/1000
5 year(s) ago
I agree, and that is the problem in Jiu Jitsu. Sylvio Behring was trying to get it standardized like Judo but then nothing was ever heard about it again. He wanted all black belt promotions to require a written test as well as a demonstration/test in front of a committee if my memory serves correctly. I could be wrong about the written test. He also wanted the self defense to be part of it. Many would be against that (self defense portion) from what I read in the forums. It would be a huge undertaking but if all practitioners and instructors get behind it, it could work.
My blue belt test was something like this. I had to know my coaches lineage, I had to know the proper names for x amount of techniques. I had had to know a chain of techniques from a number of positions. During the shark tank I would get asked randomly during rolls to perform x technique, or while I'm being smashed to recite my lineage, or the names of the people credited with creating BJJ.

At the time I hated having to study and read about BJJ, because I really wasn't that interested in the beginnings of BJJ or history, etc but in hind sight, I'm glad I had a test that made me prove myself physically, mentally and also testedy commitment to the process.

That said, it's not like people are throwing points at me. I have pictures, my verified instructor vouching for me, two other verified BB fromy school vouching and it's still a grind to get verified, so I think the system can be used with some confidence. You can always take back your votes as well.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of people from my area on here yet but I can bet that if a fake belt tried verifying on here the local community would call them out and in turn that would leak here and the votes would reflect it.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
Christian Graugart
Christian Graugart
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4340 forum posts40295/1000
5 year(s) ago
During the shark tank I would get asked randomly [...] while I'm being smashed to recite my lineage
wait what??!? :D :D :D :D
Tyler McKeag
Tyler McKeag
Black belt 1st degreeVerified35 forum posts1560/1000
5 year(s) ago
wait what??!? :D :D :D :D
Which part lol...I'm assuming the questions during the roll :D

Ya it was different, he (my coaches prof at the time) was very big on things being drilled into you and becoming second nature when exhausted. He often had us do a cardio kickboxing class before even starting a bjj class. My blue test was almost a week long. He came from France to Ottawa and I trained with him daily, most times twice a day, he talked with me about BJj, his philosophy and history. He drilled it into me and then on grading day, my test was about 6 hours long. After the long grading portion was a long shark tank and when I was most exhausted he would ask for me to demonstrate one of the techniques I was supposed to know. It was odd but I have never pushed myself so hard and it made me want it even more.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
Tatu Piispanen
Tatu Piispanen
Black beltVerified1355 forum posts11065/1000
5 year(s) ago
My blue belt test was something like this. I had to know my coaches lineage, I had to know the proper names for x amount of techniques. I had had to know a chain of techniques from a number of positions. During the shark tank I would get asked randomly during rolls to perform x technique, or while I'm being smashed to recite my lineage, or the names of the people credited with creating BJJ.
Wow! So many different ways to run these things.

I'm pretty sure half of our blue belts don't know their lineage, or even our gym's affiliation for that matter, and the "creators of BJJ" have never been mentioned in class by our head coach. (Needless to say, we don't have belt tests, but the promotions are largely based on growth in ability.)
Joshua Peters
Joshua Peters
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified4 forum posts2135/1000
5 year(s) ago
There really is two main arguments for and against standardizing bjj.
For: beyond the obvious of legitimizing each belt, it would also make instruction more like an academic approach rather than what is haphazard at a lot of the academies. No one would ever sign up for a class in college and not know what is needed in order to pass. This is something that must change within Brazilian jiu jitsu.
Against: one of those beautiful aspects of Brazilian jiu-jitsu is that it is kind of like jazz music, improvisation and personalization is what makes this dynamic art so adaptable and personal. Someone looking to defend themselves in a physical attack outside is probably looking for something pretty different from what a competitor is looking for. Forcing everybody to mold into rigid standards could really impede the arts progress. Just look at the progress of the art in the last 20 years. I would never want something that would limit the arts ability to grow and become more and more effective. Dogma generally does that.
Eric Laporte
Eric Laporte
Black belt 1st degreePending57 forum posts0/1000
5 year(s) ago
There really is two main arguments for and against standardizing bjj. For: beyond the obvious of legitimizing each belt, it would also make instruction more like an academic approach rather than what is haphazard at a lot of the academies. No one would ever sign up for a class in college and not know what is needed in order to pass. This is something that must change within Brazilian jiu jitsu. Against: one of those beautiful aspects of Brazilian jiu-jitsu is that it is kind of like jazz music, improvisation and personalization is what makes this dynamic art so adaptable and personal. Someone looking to defend themselves in a physical attack outside is probably looking for something pretty different from what a competitor is looking for. Forcing everybody to mold into rigid standards could really impede the arts progress. Just look at the progress of the art in the last 20 years. I would never want something that would limit the arts ability to grow and become more and more effective. Dogma generally does that.
I agree with you, one of the great things about bjj is how liberal it is.

So many different styles, variations ... The possibility of being creative and exore your own path are almost limitless.
Sindre Eide
Sindre Eide
Purple beltVerified86 forum posts4470/400
5 year(s) ago
I vote on people based on pictures and other vertifications. I always check photo galeri, promotion picture under the belt rank, vertifications from coach and or training partners. Then if I feel confidemt it's legitt i give my vote. I only give my votes to profile I am 100% confident about.
I have left allot of profiles without voting because I felt they did not document there rank good enough.
If everyone takes voting serious and hold on there votes a bit this will be a greate system.
Chance Harris
Chance Harris
Brown beltPending37 forum posts0/700
5 year(s) ago
What if you created a feature where a verified black belt could instantly verify their students? and if a new member signs up on the site they need to put in who they are under as a requirement. and that instructor (assuming they are members) have to verify the student before they can even become members. Trusted blackbelt mini admins so to speak. For those who don't have instructors who aren't also members, or they don't put who they are under are then subjected to community vetting? I like the community voting aspect, but I think verification on this site would hold a lot more weight if a panel of blackbelts were the ones verifying people.

Just an idea.
William Frank
William Frank
Brown beltVerified45 forum posts4435/700
5 year(s) ago
I think it is definitely a useful tool and verification system. For example, nice the world is normal again, if I happen to travel and have the opportunity to drop in on an open mat/ training session, etc, and my belt rank is question I can quickly bring up beltchecker and settle that. Say what you will that it may not be as official as IBJJF but it is a nice free alternative that serves its purpose
Oleg Ryaboy
Oleg Ryaboy
Black belt 1st degreeVerified42 forum posts1965/1000
5 year(s) ago
if I happen to travel and my belt rank is question I can quickly bring up beltchecker and settle that.
I've traveled extensively and dropped into many gyms. No one ever questions your rank, the mat fee is the same for all visitors no matter the belt color. :)

I'd have to agree with @R. David Gonzalez, beltchecker verification is worth almost nothing.
Aleksey Belyaev
Aleksey Belyaev
Purple beltVerified16 forum posts1130/400
5 year(s) ago
how it DOESN'T WORK. So, I joined belychecker. I am currently a purple belt from Russia. I have the largest LJ community on the Russian-language Internet and I immediately told our subscribers about this project. Then I saw the influx of Russian guys into the beltchecker system. But... I worry that few of these guys (including me) will not get full approval from the participants of this project. The reason is that we don't have a lot of friends here. Almost none of the Russian athletes. That is, the project works like this: you visited the camp - you were recognized and approved. Or : If you have friends , you are approved. If you don't have friends here, they won't recognize you. The Russian guys don't have any friends here. And we can't even approve of each other:)))) What to say... Even ROY, who gave me the purple belt, looked at my profile and said nothing. Really. It's just some guy from Russia... In general, the project is not for "wild dirty Russia" right? Soryan for my English
R. David Gonzalez
R. David Gonzalez
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4791 forum posts34845/1000
5 year(s) ago
how it DOESN'T WORK. So, I joined belychecker. I am currently a purple belt from Russia. I have the largest LJ community on the Russian-language Internet and I immediately told our subscribers about this project. Then I saw the influx of Russian guys into the beltchecker system. But... I worry that few of these guys (including me) will not get full approval from the participants of this project. The reason is that we don't have a lot of friends here. Almost none of the Russian athletes. That is, the project works like this: you visited the camp - you were recognized and approved. Or : If you have friends , you are approved. If you don't have friends here, they won't recognize you. The Russian guys don't have any friends here. And we can't even approve of each other:)))) What to say... Even ROY, who gave me the purple belt, looked at my profile and said nothing. Really. It's just some guy from Russia... In general, the project is not for 'wild dirty Russia' right? Soryan for my English
Be patient. It takes time. You already have had people vote for you.
Christian Graugart
Christian Graugart
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4340 forum posts40295/1000
5 year(s) ago
how it DOESN'T WORK. So, I joined belychecker. I am currently a purple belt from Russia. I have the largest LJ community on the Russian-language Internet and I immediately told our subscribers about this project. Then I saw the influx of Russian guys into the beltchecker system. But... I worry that few of these guys (including me) will not get full approval from the participants of this project. The reason is that we don't have a lot of friends here. Almost none of the Russian athletes. That is, the project works like this: you visited the camp - you were recognized and approved. Or : If you have friends , you are approved. If you don't have friends here, they won't recognize you. The Russian guys don't have any friends here. And we can't even approve of each other:)))) What to say... Even ROY, who gave me the purple belt, looked at my profile and said nothing. Really. It's just some guy from Russia... In general, the project is not for 'wild dirty Russia' right? Soryan for my English
People have been saying EXACTLY this since the site launched in January 2019, but statistics prove to us that the problem simply does not exist as you imagine it. 97% of all completed profiles are verified at this moment and I doubt that those 3% are just Russians :D Just create a well documented profile, be active on the site and you and your friends will also be verified and able to vote for each other. History has showed this to be the case again and again and again :)

At this stage, only 25 Russians have created profiles, of which just 8 have finished their ID verification etc. So no wonder it takes a little bit of time. Best thing you can do is to convince your friends to start using the platform. As soon as some of them have created well documented profiles that are being verified by the community, then the ball will start rolling really fast. Just like it has happened with many other countries, areas and communities who have joined up here :)

Good luck!
Edited 5 year(s) ago
Aleksey Belyaev
Aleksey Belyaev
Purple beltVerified16 forum posts1130/400
5 year(s) ago
People have been saying EXACTLY this since the site launched in January 2019, but statistics prove to us that the problem simply does not exist as you imagine it. 97% of all completed profiles are verified at this moment and I doubt that those 3% are just Russians :D Just create a well documented profile, be active on the site and you and your friends will also be verified and able to vote for each other. History has showed this to be the case again and again and again :) At this stage, only 25 Russians have created profiles, of which just 8 have finished their ID verification etc. So no wonder it takes a little bit of time. Best thing you can do is to convince your friends to start using the platform. As soon as some of them have created well documented profiles that are being verified by the community, then the ball will start rolling really fast. Just like it has happened with many other countries, areas and communities who have joined up here :) Good luck!
Thank you, gentlemen. So far, it's been a reflection. More theoretical. Perhaps time and practice will show everything
William Murphy
William Murphy
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts26005/1000
5 year(s) ago
I love this reporting system because it keeps records and lets the public know some things about each participant. IBJJF has performed great as a tournament. The CBJJ has dropped the ball in the promotion and ranking declarations in my humble opinion. The JJGF lead by Master Rickson Gracie is trying to fix some of the many mistakes of the CBJJ. I truly think that the organization like the USJJF lead by Professor Bruce Bethers is the most organized. Master Rigan Machado is apart of the organization. For me it is about organization, common educational criteria with in the art, and just having fun. I truly think that all black belts should have to be tested by a board of professors just like getting a doctorate. The tournament should never be the test, because that is not the point of the art in my opinion.
In social science doctoral programs, the comp exams are often subjective, and/or regurgitation of pseudo-science, and in many doctoral dissertations, the presiding committee members may not even understand the first thing about what is being presented.
What is more, universities often have instructors teach classes, that have no practical experience in, and sometimes that the students could teach more ably than the doctorates.
And nothing is more ridiculous than business professors who have only worked in universities, teaching management or marketing classes, as if they were remotely qualified to teach anyone about management or marketing.
So, there are no perfect systems, but there are many ridiculous ones.

Edited 5 year(s) ago
Vince Choo
Vince Choo
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified1129 forum posts21365/1000
5 year(s) ago
Tested how, Scott? What's a good universal proof in regards being a 'true black belt in BJJ'?
and also if anyone outside the sphere of BJJ cares about belt ranks or even bother about any significance...
Bradley Barnes
Bradley Barnes
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified2 forum posts1465/1000
4 year(s) ago
People will expose themselves as to their legitimacy over time. No one can outrun skills. I say let people verify “on the backs of photos” or based on friendship if they choose. At the end of the day, the JiuJitsu speaks for itself.
Jorgen Matsi
Jorgen Matsi
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified1792 forum posts18185/1000
4 year(s) ago
Great question. Maybe they could be tested on leadership, education psychology, sports psychology, reffing, dojo management skills, sexual harassment, curriculum design, self protection or martial arts history. I think these are just some of the subjects that could taught.
I don't think learning to ace a test is a good indication of being good at doing or passing on jiu jitsu.

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