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Post Your Lineage

6 year(s) ago • 59847 views • 355 replies

Mirco
Mirco
Brown beltVerified832 forum posts6445/700
6 year(s) ago
From my perspective, I am a only a hobbyist and purple belt, a fraud is somebody who does not put the right amount of effort in it to learn the art/sport and to earn his/her belt, like for example promoting themselves to „higher“ belt or training Japanese Jiu Jitsu and suddenly wearing a bjj blackbelt/ representing bjj, although never trained it or learned it from a bjj blackbelt.
Standards vary and improvement is an individual thing with lots of variables (school, affiliation/lineage, Coach, approach, age, hours on the mats, etc....).
To me at least it looks kind of „suspicious“, if someone every year climbs the ranks up getting promoted to blackbelt like in 5 years, if he/she isn’t a well known top professional athlete in his/her prime in the competition scene training and learning with blackbelts on a daily basis (rule of thumb up to 10 years years getting promoted to blackbelt as a everyday guy in minimum).
If a everyday guy in the 40s without decent competition record is getting promoted to blackbelt in 5 years from scratch to blackbelt by a legit bjj blackbelt with official blackbelt diploma, etc... I wouldn’t call him/her a „fraud“.... I definitely would wonder how quick he/she got promoted though, because it is really rare.
If someone trained Luta Livre for example for 10 years and is a Brownbelt of that art that is „similar“ to bjj and climbs up to the ranks in bjj getting his/her blackbelt in 5 years, that is a whole different thing, isn’t it?
Look at Olympic Judoka Travis Stevens for example who got promoted fast , but had extensive professional grappling background and in bjj too learned from the best.....nobody would doubt his skills and abilities!
Just my opinion
Edited 6 year(s) ago
R. David Gonzalez
R. David Gonzalez
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4799 forum posts35020/1000
6 year(s) ago
Last one before I get fired from my job. Lol

No one here now so I'm making the best of it.

Hope you are all having a great day despite the circumstances.
Baer
Baer
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified54 forum posts3660/1000
6 year(s) ago
Jigoro Kano>Mitsuyo Maeda > Carlos Gracie > Helio Gracie > Francisco Mansur > Joe Moreira>Kai Li> Benjamin Rothrock
Cliff
Cliff
Black belt 1st degreeVerified4 forum posts2315/1000
6 year(s) ago
Carlos Gracie-> Helio Gracie->Royler Gracie->Saulo Ribeiro/Vinicius Aieta-> Jorge Britto-> Me.
In my 14 years training in New Zealand, UK and Canada I have managed to also train under Douglas Santos (NZ), Roger Gracie (UK) and now train with Dainis Nguyen. The cool thing about BJJ is that it is global and is humbling. Days when you feel like you could win a world title and days when you feel like it is your first class. Vividly remember my first class and sitting in my car after that class and think "what the hell just happened". Instantly hooked.
Vovis
Vovis
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified978 forum posts9335/1000
6 year(s) ago
I like the Idea of 'Lineage' - not because I think everyone needs to copy their teacher; on the contrary. If my students turn out to be 'copys' of myself, I would not consider myself a good teacher because I taught them MY moves instead of teaching them to develop THEIR game and mainly the Understanding of the Art... I like the Idea of lineage because for once, I like 'history'. Also, I like the option that it gives one a perspective on how the art one studies developed through the generations (looking at each teacher in succession and what their strong points were). Whatever I study an art I often try to get 'as close to the source' of said art for my onw studying - not because I believe it is 'better' (!) - oftentimes the new generations develop awesome methods that the founders could not even imagine - but I simply like to see how things were 'in the beginning' to be able to put those changes into perspective and understand those developments that changed the Art at one point or another. I also followed this 'rule' when I studied Traditional Chinese Medicine (I went to china to study there instead of attending the commonly offered courses offered here in Germany) or Osteopathy (wich I studied mainly with Osteopathic Professors from the US - where Osteopathy originated - instead of taking 'germanized' courses…)… Is lineage 'important' when it comes to ability? NO - there are plenty of experts / masters / champions who have no real lineage; and there are those with a great lineage who still suck at what they do... But I think we should not forget that BJJ is still one of the Few arts where direct Student-Teacher Lineage is one of the Main factors in 'verification' of a persons validity of Rank! If you can not produce a Promotion by a recognized Blackbelt, it does not matter how great you are on the mats… and that Black Belt of course had to come from anothe valid Black Belt etc etc - s in the end, EVERYONE in the comunity can andshould be able to trace their Lineage to one of the founding roots in Brazil. If they cant, their rank is automatically 'questionable'. And I like it that way! It makes us different from other Arts or Systems where you simply get Ranked at a Grade-Testing by some random Guy with a Licence for Grading from a certain Association. In the attaced file I tried to recreate my Lineages to the Kodokan through Judo and BJJ - and I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out my Judo-Lineages from when I started Judo. Unfortunately, my early teachers all end up in a big Association-Blackbox from where they recieved their rank; with no further documentation on who THEY actually learned from. Would knowing that make me a better practitioner? No; it would not. But I would love to be able to connect those dots just a clearly as I ca in my BJJ Lineage (and my current Judo Lineage - wich I can trace all the way to Kano as well. Anyways, just some Random thoughts... My main Kodokan Lineage/s are: In BJJ 1) Kanō Jigorō > Tomita Tsunejirō -> Mitsuyo Maeda > Carlos Gracie Sr. > Reyson Gracie > Mario Stapel > Philipp Wolf (me) 2) Kanō Jigorō > Tomita Tsunejirō -> Mitsuyo Maeda > Carlos Gracie Sr. > Helio Gracie > Robin Gracie > Mario Stapel > Philipp Wolf (me) 3) Kanō Jigorō > Tomita Tsunejirō -> Mitsuyo Maeda > Carlos Gracie Sr. > Helio Gracie > Pedro Hemetério de Araújo > Franco Vacirca > Mario Stapel > Philipp Wolf (me) And my main Judo Lineage: Kanō Jigorō > Fukushima Seizaburō > Ushijima Tatsukuma > Hirano Tokio > Frank Thiele > Thomas Kohlrausch > Philipp Wolf (me) See also my Lineage-Poster (a Work in Progress): https://bjj-neustadt.weeb[...]020_02.jpg
Well stated. And if you study your lineage you will be able to see the progression of the art through the teacher student development. I feel lineage is not the sole factor on whether someones jiu-jitsu will develop, having a solid understanding of your historical lineage will give the student a great appreciation for their instructors journey in jiu-jitsu.
Oisin McCabe
Oisin McCabe
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified49 forum posts1575/1000
6 year(s) ago
I'm not really big on this, but here it is. Me after the shirtless man with his arms crossed.
Curious if you feel pressure to pose shirtless when you add your photo to this? ;)
Anthony Restuccia
Anthony Restuccia
Black beltVerified655 forum posts15420/1000
6 year(s) ago
Curious if you feel pressure to pose shirtless when you add your photo to this? ;)
I won't feel pressure. I'll do it of my own volition for the ladies.
Corey Kuropas
Corey Kuropas
Brown beltVerified25 forum posts1340/700
6 year(s) ago
I actually first attained my purple belt under Jason Chambers (Renzo BB). I was then proudly accepted as a Jay Pages affiliate.

Mitsuyo Maeda -> Carlos Gracie Sr -> Reylson Gracie -> Paul Mauricio Strauch -> Caio Terra -> Jay Pages -> Me (purple belt, one stripe)
Claudio Soleti
Claudio Soleti
Purple beltVerified44 forum posts1295/400
6 year(s) ago
I always felt the whole lineage praising culture was kind of weird. If I take my own students, some of them are super talented and medal at big tournaments. Some of them are blue belts for 10 years and lose first match in every single competition. Some of them copy my game to the detail, some go their own way and develop completely distinct style. I dont see why they should get anything out of saying I’m their lineage, when so many other factors play in. An important point to consider of course, is that this is kind of unique to jiu jitsu. Why don’t golfers, tennis players, table tennis players, cyclists and marathon runner talk about their lineage like jiu jitsu people do? It’s weird. Just weird.
I agree with you. In particular, there are those who practice but do not want to compete having a superb technique ... choices .... the latter I finally consider them the best because they are the best teammates of the agonists and are often the true heart of the team, developing their own game hard made of solid foundations that often puts in crisis the various specialists of berimboli etc ....
in short, there is also the clear distinction of the agonist practitioner from the non-agonist practitioner. This is also valid for instructors, who has "old instructors" will learn a way to do bjj, who has an instructor and agonist will have a totally different one. I can give a practical example if in a seminar I listen to Octavio Couto in bjj "wins" who makes less physical effort using gravity, applied physics, it doesn't matter if you are in a privileged position or not; If I listen to an agonist professor he will teach me to hold the position to take the advantage, not to show the tired look ... in short, there is a world and you never stop learning ... sorry for the long post ...
Virginio Minervini
Virginio Minervini
Black beltVerified24 forum posts2175/1000
6 year(s) ago
This is something that’s only been a question to me since last year.

From white to brown:
Mitsuyo “Konde Coma” Maeda > Carlos Gracie Sr. > Carlos Gracie Jr. > Ailson Henrique “Jucão” Brites > me

Little did I realize as a lower belt that after just under three years at brown belt, I’d find myself parting ways from my professor. Luckily for me I’ve been able to continue training under the guidance of my good friend Jose Luis Becerra.

Brown to (eventually, with enough work) Black:
Mitsuyo “Konde Coma” Maeda > Carlos Gracie > Helio Gracie > Rolls Gracie > Romero “Jacare” Cavalcanti > Octavio Henrique “Ratinho” Couto da Silva Jr. > Jose Luis Becerra > me

I’m curious to hear how some of the more experienced/senior blackbelts feel about situations like this. Although the specifics may vary, I’m sure my situation is not unique.
William Murphy
William Murphy
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2144 forum posts26055/1000
6 year(s) ago
This is something that’s only been a question to me since last year. From white to brown: Mitsuyo “Konde Coma” Maeda > Carlos Gracie Sr. > Carlos Gracie Jr. > Ailson Henrique “Jucão” Brites > me Little did I realize as a lower belt that after just under three years at brown belt, I’d find myself parting ways from my professor. Luckily for me I’ve been able to continue training under the guidance of my good friend Jose Luis Becerra. Brown to (eventually, with enough work) Black: Mitsuyo “Konde Coma” Maeda > Carlos Gracie > Helio Gracie > Rolls Gracie > Romero “Jacare” Cavalcanti > Octavio Henrique “Ratinho” Couto da Silva Jr. > Jose Luis Becerra > me I’m curious to hear how some of the more experienced/senior blackbelts feel about situations like this. Although the specifics may vary, I’m sure my situation is not unique.
Give your old instructor a small jar of honey and a thank you card for all you have learned.

In person, if possible.

Virtually, or at a distance, if in COVID19 lockdown, etc or circumstances don't otherwise allow.

Then move on, with your new instructor and training partners,

and focus on the future and positive matters.
Adam Colon
Adam Colon
Black belt 1st degreeVerified38 forum posts1930/1000
6 year(s) ago
Lineage: Mitsuyo Maeda > Carlos Gracie > Carlson Gracie > Andre “Dede” Pederneiras > Vitor “Shaolin” Ribeiro > Me
Brian Murphy
Brian Murphy
Black belt 1st degreeVerified3 forum posts1440/1000
6 year(s) ago
Sort of funny — some of my best moves have been developed in part of seminars we had at our school. My head coach still has some moves that catches me off guard and during class he'll ask me to demonstrate certain moves I excel at. A good example is my Yoko Tomoe Nage throw was developed because Judo athlete Nick Delpopolo along with Travis Stevens and a few others of Team FORCE visited my school.

With that being said lineage is as follows...

... Renzo -> Matt Serra -> Dan Simmler -> Me. pretty straight forward here
Steven Zoll
Steven Zoll
Black belt 1st degreeVerified648 forum posts10680/1000
6 year(s) ago
I know it's important to some, but I never really cared much about lineage. Switching coaches, gyms, and/or affiliations are so common now a days that it's hard for most practitioners to know their full lineage. For example, I have studied under the same instructor since I started training BJJ. My instructor, on the hand, had multiple instructors before receiving his black belt from Andre "Tim" Monteiro under A-Force. To add to my confusion, we recently switched affiliations to Diego Gamonal under Brazilian Top Team.

So here's what my lineage looks like previously under A-Force: Mitsuyo Maeda > Carlos Gracie > Carlson Gracie > Francisco Albuquerque > Andre Monteiro > Marco Hernandez > Me

And currently under BTT: Mitsuyo Maeda > Carlos Gracie > Carlson Gracie > Sérgio Bolão > Ricardo Marques > Diego Gamonal > Marco Hernandez > Me
James Maninang
James Maninang
Blue beltVerified28 forum posts950/200
6 year(s) ago
Mitsuyo Maeda > Carlos Gracie > Crolin Gracie > Jorge Popovitch > Pablo Popovitch > Michael Yanez > Josh Hubbard > Michael Bateman > me (the one who looks like a flopping fish)


I never really cared much for the lineage of the school I was going to attend, as I'd much rather have a good coach and professor than someone who came from blackbelt killer royalty or something. Someone that could teach a person how to learn your ju jujitsu instead of pure ju jujitsu.
Flow
Flow
Black belt 1st degreeVerified18 forum posts2320/1000
6 year(s) ago
Mitsuyo Maeda > Carlos Gracie > Helio Gracie > Rickson Gracie > Marcelo Behring > Waldomiro Perez > Roberto Godoi > Roberto Tozi >Ricardo Oliveira > me
R. David Gonzalez
R. David Gonzalez
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4799 forum posts35020/1000
6 year(s) ago
I come from pretty humble beginnings.

King Maekar - Aegon V Targaryen - King Aerys II Targaryen - Rhaegar Targaryen- Me (after a short stint as Lord Eddard Stark's bastard son) Of course the Nightwatch was not very fun.
Alexander Neufang
Alexander Neufang
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified103 forum posts7440/1000
6 year(s) ago
got black from Robson Barbosa
but to be precise he and Christian Graugart awarded me the belt together

however if i really wanna show from where i learned then this attached high end diagram i made exclusively for this thread shows it in much more detail

(the size of the bubbles shows how much i learned from where)

Edited 6 year(s) ago
Vince Choo
Vince Choo
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified1129 forum posts21440/1000
6 year(s) ago
I come from pretty humble beginnings. King Maekar - Aegon V Targaryen - King Aerys II Targaryen - Rhaegar Targaryen- Me (after a short stint as Lord Eddard Stark's bastard son) Of course the Nightwatch was not very fun.
would imagine your Canada Goose parka was put to work on the Wall, eh?
Edited 6 year(s) ago
Dan Han
Dan Han
Brown beltVerified5 forum posts1245/700
6 year(s) ago
I think it's nice to pay respects to your immediate instructors and their instructors and so on. Nothing more, nothing less. Somewhere in the middle, like a Goldilocks zone.

Those who do, cool. Those who don't, cool. Just roll.

On that note, mine happens to be:
Kanō Jigorō > Tomita Tsunejirō > Mitsuyo Maeda > Carlos Gracie > Carlson Gracie > Carlson Gracie Jr. > Michael O'Donnell > Jamal Mohammed > Dan Han

✌
Edited 6 year(s) ago
Sebastien Leger
Sebastien Leger
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified39 forum posts4045/1000
6 year(s) ago
I started my martial arts practice around 14 years old with full-contact, then around 18 years old I joined a school of Nihon Kempo Jutsu, to move to BJJ and MMA in 2006.
Today I am a student of Emmanuel Fernandez himself representative of Ricardo DeLaRiva for France.
Emmanuel Fernandez "Pythagore"
in Sherdog : https://www.sherdog.com/f[...]andez-8131
in school website : https://www.pythagorejiuj[...]pythagore/

(please help me to certify my account ;-) )
Ben Wynne
Ben Wynne
Black belt 1st degreeVerified291 forum posts5040/1000
6 year(s) ago
Robert Drysdale had some interesting things to say about the original lineage of the early Gracies and Maeda on the Grappling Central Podcast ep 407
The documentary that he's been working on sounds really like it'll be worth checking out
Daniel Parks
Daniel Parks
Black belt 1st degreeVerified8 forum posts3710/1000
6 year(s) ago
Kano jigoro Tomita> Mitsuyo Maeda> Carlos Gracie> Carlson Gracie> Ricardo Delariva> Vicente Junior> me
John Andrews
John Andrews
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified93 forum posts1675/1000
6 year(s) ago
Blue belt - Vitor Shaolin Ribireo => me
Purple belt - Vitor Shaolin Ribireo => Colin Howells => me
Brown and Black belts - Roger Gracie => Andy Roberts => me
Joe_Wick
Joe_wick
Blue beltVerified183 forum posts4080/200
6 year(s) ago
Mitsuyo Maeda > Carlos Gracie > Carlson Gracie > Carlson Gracie Jr > Michael O'Donnell > Sidney Cline III & Aaron Goble > Me

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