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Totally bizarre belt fakery scenario (your opinion, no real names, yet...)
6 year(s) ago • 5145 views • 35 replies
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Hi people,
Me & another forum member have been diving into the promotion history of a certain individual.
Let's call him "Pierre"...
Pierre joins an affiliation wearing a brown belt, and after a few encounters, he asks what he needs to do to become a black belt.
His skillset is "meh". Not a death machine by any means, but pretty okay. He's also an older guy so he gets the benefit of the doubt.
Pierre is told: just keep training & enjoy the ride.
At a certain point, Pierre is asked about his other belt promotions.
Here's where things get interesting.
Pierre has different origin stories regarding ALL his belts. I dare to say, all of them are lies.
He claims to me personally, he was promoted to blue belt by black belt "Jacques" (let's call him that), a practicioner from France.
When contacted, Jacques claims he doesn't remember Pierre. There is a group photo of them together, however.
When asked, Pierre claims to black belt "Hans" from The Netherlands, that he was promoted to purple belt "on the beach". And later he tells me, he was promoted to purple AND brown belt by highly respected black belt "Pedro", a Brazilian living in the USA.
When contacted, Pedro says he's never heard of Pierre. Pedro is a well known figure in the scene and writes to me: "To get a purple and brown belt from me takes a long time. I would remember. I don't give belts away easy. Everybody must test individually."
When asked by black belt "Rodrigo", Pierre claims was promoted to brown belt by a black belt named "John", from the USA. I message John, and John says "I don't know who that is..."
So, no one of these people, who he claims have promoted him, even remember him.
Here's the kicker.
Pierre disappears for a while, and in the meantime, somehow gets promoted to black belt by a real guy. Let's call him "Mario".
Everybody on Beltchecker screams: "OSS!!! LEGIT" and Pierre gets the validation he so craves.
Yet his promotion history is murky, to say the least...
I have screenshots of all of this. But I don't want to go nuclear (yet).
First, I'd like the community's opinion.
Me & another forum member have been diving into the promotion history of a certain individual.
Let's call him "Pierre"...
Pierre joins an affiliation wearing a brown belt, and after a few encounters, he asks what he needs to do to become a black belt.
His skillset is "meh". Not a death machine by any means, but pretty okay. He's also an older guy so he gets the benefit of the doubt.
Pierre is told: just keep training & enjoy the ride.
At a certain point, Pierre is asked about his other belt promotions.
Here's where things get interesting.
Pierre has different origin stories regarding ALL his belts. I dare to say, all of them are lies.
He claims to me personally, he was promoted to blue belt by black belt "Jacques" (let's call him that), a practicioner from France.
When contacted, Jacques claims he doesn't remember Pierre. There is a group photo of them together, however.
When asked, Pierre claims to black belt "Hans" from The Netherlands, that he was promoted to purple belt "on the beach". And later he tells me, he was promoted to purple AND brown belt by highly respected black belt "Pedro", a Brazilian living in the USA.
When contacted, Pedro says he's never heard of Pierre. Pedro is a well known figure in the scene and writes to me: "To get a purple and brown belt from me takes a long time. I would remember. I don't give belts away easy. Everybody must test individually."
When asked by black belt "Rodrigo", Pierre claims was promoted to brown belt by a black belt named "John", from the USA. I message John, and John says "I don't know who that is..."
So, no one of these people, who he claims have promoted him, even remember him.
Here's the kicker.
Pierre disappears for a while, and in the meantime, somehow gets promoted to black belt by a real guy. Let's call him "Mario".
Everybody on Beltchecker screams: "OSS!!! LEGIT" and Pierre gets the validation he so craves.
Yet his promotion history is murky, to say the least...
I have screenshots of all of this. But I don't want to go nuclear (yet).
First, I'd like the community's opinion.
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I have no dog in this fight, by the way. "Pierre" hasn't trained with us.
It's just an interesting scenario / thought experiment for this site.
It's just an interesting scenario / thought experiment for this site.
FFBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Just one hour ago I wrote in another tread, "A bit of debate around a promotion here or there is a healthy thing and will avoid, in my opinion, to have at some point somebody promoting himself and then getting verified by the herd of OSS SEEMZ LEGIT."
So...
So...
MBrown beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Mhhh,
at least it sounds really fishy....all that „zig zagging“ around by that person about who promoted him to what belt....
Especially when the professors say they don’t know him ....strange
at least it sounds really fishy....all that „zig zagging“ around by that person about who promoted him to what belt....
Especially when the professors say they don’t know him ....strange
AKPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Has Pierre competed, if so how did he get on above blue belt level?
We had a case in the UK, not on beltchecker, where a guy basically promoted himself to brown whilst switching gyms, Lewis Clarke. His purple was dubious too, he was constantly getting exposed on the mats and annihilated by blue belts which was a bit of a giveaway. He opened a club and started teaching, which might be why Pierre is desperate for a black belt.
We had a case in the UK, not on beltchecker, where a guy basically promoted himself to brown whilst switching gyms, Lewis Clarke. His purple was dubious too, he was constantly getting exposed on the mats and annihilated by blue belts which was a bit of a giveaway. He opened a club and started teaching, which might be why Pierre is desperate for a black belt.
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Has Pierre competed, if so how did he get on above blue belt level? We had a case in the UK, not on beltchecker, where a guy basically promoted himself to brown whilst switching gyms, Lewis Clarke. His purple was dubious too, he was constantly getting exposed on the mats and annihilated by blue belts which was a bit of a giveaway. He opened a club and started teaching, which might be why Pierre is desperate for a black belt.
Alexander,
I think he has competed. To be fair.
But I suspect, he did so in the master divisions with few people in the bracket, making default medals a thing.
I will concede it's entirely possible Pierre has developed ok skills on the mat by now. The guy who promoted him is very good by all accounts. He might be unaware of Pierre's dubious history.
I think he has competed. To be fair.
But I suspect, he did so in the master divisions with few people in the bracket, making default medals a thing.
I will concede it's entirely possible Pierre has developed ok skills on the mat by now. The guy who promoted him is very good by all accounts. He might be unaware of Pierre's dubious history.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
So.... who will cast the first stone (/downvote)!
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Oh, I can guess who this is and I see someone already did throw some stones :D
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
In the spirit of transparency, I have all the screenshots.
And I can post them here if he doesn't respond or clarify his promotion history...
And I can post them here if he doesn't respond or clarify his promotion history...
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Well he hasn't been online for 5 months so maybe not much chance of a reply
AKPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Alexander, I think he has competed. To be fair. But I suspect, he did so in the master divisions with few people in the bracket, making default medals a thing. I will concede it's entirely possible Pierre has developed ok skills on the mat by now. The guy who promoted him is very good by all accounts. He might be unaware of Pierre's dubious history.
Well even if he is that skill level, he still can't promote himself. In the Lewis Clarke case, his habitual lying was also part of some darker behaviours. Not saying Pierre is the same, but definitely needs to be challenged.
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I will make a seperate thread on this. Here goes...
Georges Meulenyser, aka "Pierre"
Lied about blue, purple & brown belt promotions.
Georges Meulenyser, aka "Pierre"
Lied about blue, purple & brown belt promotions.
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
In conclusion...
Fuckery = afoot.
Fuckery = afoot.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Has anyone contacted Mathias Jardin?
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
This song will continue to play in my head in a loop until this is all settled. Lol
https://www.youtube.com/w[...]OtDaQR9R5o
https://www.youtube.com/w[...]OtDaQR9R5o
SBBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I'm usually not very interested in a pedantic following of rules, although I try to a general adherence to the spirit of the rules. I went to college and left with 3 classes left to graduate. I figured that three classes wouldn't make me any smarter and I had gotten what I needed from higher education so I might as well start my life as soon as possible. It worked out for me just fine. However, BJJ is different. It is about the pedantic following of rules, a gathering of technique, AND application of that technique on the mats. If you don't excel in all three areas you shouldn't be promoted to black belt. In this case, a black belt has vouched for his proficiency in technique and application are at the black belt level. You can't take that back even if the guy lied about all of his past belt promotions, can you? If he, just for argument's sake, has the black belt skill and has put the time on the mats and is able to apply that skill against a resisting opponent then shouldn't everyone be OK with his promotion?
Honestly, I could argue both sides, but I know I wouldn't want to have a beer with the guy.
Honestly, I could argue both sides, but I know I wouldn't want to have a beer with the guy.
TPBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
If he, just for argument's sake, has the black belt skill and has put the time on the mats and is able to apply that skill against a resisting opponent then shouldn't everyone be OK with his promotion?
No.
If he in fact has never gotten blue, purple or brown belts, the senior black belt in question promoted him straight from white belt to black belt. This is questionable even in extreme cases where the individual is extraordinarily skilled & knowledgeable about grappling close enough to BJJ, which I believe this person is not. What makes it double questionable is that the promoter didn't know he was promoting a white belt. Would he have done so if he would've known it? Didn't think so.
If he in fact has never gotten blue, purple or brown belts, the senior black belt in question promoted him straight from white belt to black belt. This is questionable even in extreme cases where the individual is extraordinarily skilled & knowledgeable about grappling close enough to BJJ, which I believe this person is not. What makes it double questionable is that the promoter didn't know he was promoting a white belt. Would he have done so if he would've known it? Didn't think so.
SBBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
No. If he in fact has never gotten blue, purple or brown belts, the senior black belt in question promoted him straight from white belt to black belt. This is questionable even in extreme cases where the individual is extraordinarily skilled & knowledgeable about grappling close enough to BJJ, which I believe this person is not. What makes it double questionable is that the promoter didn't know he was promoting a white belt. Would he have done so if he would've known it? Didn't think so.
True - in this case. I was asking more of a hypothetical question. It is breadth and application of knowledge, recognized belt promotions, or time on the mat that matters in black belt promotions? I think that character counts in belt promotions, especially for black belts. I don't think that is the case across the board.
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
CBBrown beltVerified
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
So how's then BJJ scene now wherever he was?
RGBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
damn did i miss the popcorn party? But seriously who would promote a student to black belt if they didn't truly know them or their background? When you promote a black belt you forever tie your name to that person. Also side note.....anyone who lies about their belt level is most likely dealing with major internal insecurity issues or just has general mental problems.
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
damn did i miss the popcorn party? But seriously who would promote a student to black belt if they didn't truly know them or their background? When you promote a black belt you forever tie your name to that person. Also side note.....anyone who lies about their belt level is most likely dealing with major internal insecurity issues or just has general mental problems.
We explained in the other thread.
Jardin was lied to, and the guy had been training for a long time by then, so had okay skills on the mat.
I have no idea where that leaves his students. Wim suggested they join gracie barra liege, which is an excellent team.
In any case, it's quite unfortunate.
I actually feel bad for all people in involved. Someone that lies so blatantly has deep issues.
Jardin was lied to, and the guy had been training for a long time by then, so had okay skills on the mat.
I have no idea where that leaves his students. Wim suggested they join gracie barra liege, which is an excellent team.
In any case, it's quite unfortunate.
I actually feel bad for all people in involved. Someone that lies so blatantly has deep issues.
DBBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I know two weird scenarios.
Still no names and some Places are changed
One Guy has the ability to get his belts during flights. So he first came here to Germany, and started to train as a brown belt (according to social media, last pictures before departure were purple...), so skillset was OK, good coach. 2 years have past, with much stuff happened. He flight abroad for a few days and came back as black belt.
So I would say due to experience, and skillset he's black. But still everything around him was weird.
Second story. There is this guy, begging for years to get his blue belt in Jiu Jitsu from different gyms and coaches (me including) and he he got declined from every gym, coach, etc.
Simply because he is an mma guy, no experience in gi also not interested, teaching (yes he's teaching for 15 years now) shit, giving seminars, etc, and has absolutely no feeling for the spirit of Jiu Jitsu. So he started to do Luta Livre. I was on the seminar where he got his purple belt. It was 5 or 6 years ago, still he would be maximum a blue belt in that (as a Luta Livre brown belt).
So time passed by. And this guy really got promoted to black belt in Luta Livre. It's so surreal and changed my whole opinion on this thing. Because he is simply a discgrace as black belt. (in my opinion), I started to ignore everything about him the last 2 years and 2 weeks ago I went to a mma event where I coach proudly chatted that he was now he is his mma coach and promotes them, etc. It was so awkward and weird.
Still no names and some Places are changed
One Guy has the ability to get his belts during flights. So he first came here to Germany, and started to train as a brown belt (according to social media, last pictures before departure were purple...), so skillset was OK, good coach. 2 years have past, with much stuff happened. He flight abroad for a few days and came back as black belt.
So I would say due to experience, and skillset he's black. But still everything around him was weird.
Second story. There is this guy, begging for years to get his blue belt in Jiu Jitsu from different gyms and coaches (me including) and he he got declined from every gym, coach, etc.
Simply because he is an mma guy, no experience in gi also not interested, teaching (yes he's teaching for 15 years now) shit, giving seminars, etc, and has absolutely no feeling for the spirit of Jiu Jitsu. So he started to do Luta Livre. I was on the seminar where he got his purple belt. It was 5 or 6 years ago, still he would be maximum a blue belt in that (as a Luta Livre brown belt).
So time passed by. And this guy really got promoted to black belt in Luta Livre. It's so surreal and changed my whole opinion on this thing. Because he is simply a discgrace as black belt. (in my opinion), I started to ignore everything about him the last 2 years and 2 weeks ago I went to a mma event where I coach proudly chatted that he was now he is his mma coach and promotes them, etc. It was so awkward and weird.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
What I meant that was did Jardin take any action, did Georges's students found out and what they thought of that and does his school still operate etc
FFBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
If we expand to our luta livre cousins, recently there's been an interesting case in Germany where somebody got awarded a black belt in "grappling" by somebody who has no black belt in any grappling art, and this guy immediately started to award luta livre belts :D
