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Judo Black belt = BJJ Blue belt?
6 year(s) ago • 15487 views • 38 replies
DBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Hi guys!
Have a question i should probably know the answer to but don't. I just recently had a Judo Black belt starting training at my academy. He is legit and has competed alot both nationally and internationally. Also a damn good wrestler that has competed and trained with one of the best wrestlign clubs in Sweden for a while.
Now, how does it work with his BJJ rank. Do "we" award hi a blue belt in BJJ because of his judo black belt? Is that a rule or just something that happens often? He can for sure hold his own on the mats and i do not question his judo rank at all.
Have a question i should probably know the answer to but don't. I just recently had a Judo Black belt starting training at my academy. He is legit and has competed alot both nationally and internationally. Also a damn good wrestler that has competed and trained with one of the best wrestlign clubs in Sweden for a while.
Now, how does it work with his BJJ rank. Do "we" award hi a blue belt in BJJ because of his judo black belt? Is that a rule or just something that happens often? He can for sure hold his own on the mats and i do not question his judo rank at all.
CBBrown beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I train both judo and BJJ. I can't say for your guy specifically as he sounds like an exceptional case, but judo black belts on the whole aren't really equivalent to a BJJ Blue belt. They will probably beat them on their feet, especially when playing judo rules, but once it goes to the ground, things are very different. While judo does have a newaza component, the focus is definitely on their stand up and they have a very limited about of time they are allowed to ground fight. This tends to make them very explosive and fast, and said style is perfectly suited to their ruleset, but when you don't have to worry about a time limit or pins like in BJJ, it tends to leave them very open to submissions.
Again, I'm speaking generally here. Your guy may be an exception.
Again, I'm speaking generally here. Your guy may be an exception.
FFBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
White belt until he can "speak" jiu-jitsu, that being having a real understanding of how positions and priorities in jiu-jitsu work, a bit more technical knowledge about the submission game and so on. Sure he would get there way before someone starting from scratch but I don't think he needs a blue belt on his first week. And for everybody's sake if he goes competing register him at blue belt even if he wears a white :D
CBBrown beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
It's competing at blue belt mandatory for judo black belts anyway?
TPBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
One of my best training partners was a judo black belt when we started around the same time, and was also a national judo team member. He stayed white at least 6 months. (He is a BJJ black belt now.) Did a lot of stuff "weird" in the start (when it comes to what one is supposed to do in BJJ), despite being a grappler already, before he quickly got the hang of it.
Most tournaments, however, require judo black belts enter the blue belt division, even if their BJJ rank is white. (This is only fair IMO.)
Most tournaments, however, require judo black belts enter the blue belt division, even if their BJJ rank is white. (This is only fair IMO.)
DBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Sorry guys, should have been more specific.
I was asking if there is a IBJJF rule that states thats Judo Black belts get Blue belts. If i 'm recalling right they cant compete in the white belt category in BJJ competitions.
So it was a question if that gives them the rank of blue in the rules or if they just have to compete there?
I was asking if there is a IBJJF rule that states thats Judo Black belts get Blue belts. If i 'm recalling right they cant compete in the white belt category in BJJ competitions.
So it was a question if that gives them the rank of blue in the rules or if they just have to compete there?
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
IBJJF states judo black belts have to compete in the blue belt division, because you don't want John McHobbyist white belt get ippon seoied on his dome by the former Belarussian national judo champ (unranked in BJJ).
In your case.
What's the rush. Let brohim shred up the team for a bit, make sure he's a good bloke, then belt him after a year or so.
In your case.
What's the rush. Let brohim shred up the team for a bit, make sure he's a good bloke, then belt him after a year or so.
DBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
IBJJF states judo black belts have to compete in the blue belt division, because you don't want John McHobbyist white belt get ippon seoied on his dome by the former Belarussian national judo champ (unranked in BJJ). In your case. What's the rush. Let brohim shred up the team for a bit, make sure he's a good bloke, then belt him after a year or so.
Ah ok, so it's only for competing that rule is in effect?
No, he won't be recieving any belt from me yet in that case... :-)
No, he won't be recieving any belt from me yet in that case... :-)
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Ah ok, so it's only for competing that rule is in effect? No, he won't be recieving any belt from me yet in that case... :-)
Yep.
As I understand it, it's purely to prevent a horrible sandbagging mismatch.
As I understand it, it's purely to prevent a horrible sandbagging mismatch.
TPBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I think also pro MMA fights have the same requirement (has to compete at blue)... Thus we have one guy who is a white belt yet put on a blue belt when he competed in the IBJJF this year. Still a white at the club. :D
CBBrown beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Yep. As I understand it, it's purely to prevent a horrible sandbagging mismatch.
That's actually not quite correct. It's more to prevent injury. In Judo, for example, they aren't allowed to compete until they reach yellow belt, at least this is the rule in Germany. That's because they need a minimum amount of skill in break falls, otherwise it would end very badly. That means everyone will have a minimum 6 to 12 months practice before they compete depending on how often they promote people at their dojo.
In BJJ on the other hand, you could literally start training on Thursday and do your first competition on Saturday. While it's allowed, you'll still be crap and you will have no break fall ability, especially since we tend to pull guard and remove the standup portion all together. Pit that guy against a seasoned Judo black belt who has an insane Seoi Nage and that white belt is possibly going to land in the hospital.
In BJJ on the other hand, you could literally start training on Thursday and do your first competition on Saturday. While it's allowed, you'll still be crap and you will have no break fall ability, especially since we tend to pull guard and remove the standup portion all together. Pit that guy against a seasoned Judo black belt who has an insane Seoi Nage and that white belt is possibly going to land in the hospital.
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
That's actually not quite correct. It's more to prevent injury. In Judo, for example, they aren't allowed to compete until they reach yellow belt, at least this is the rule in Germany. That's because they need a minimum amount of skill in break falls, otherwise it would end very badly. That means everyone will have a minimum 6 to 12 months practice before they compete depending on how often they promote people at their dojo. In BJJ on the other hand, you could literally start training on Thursday and do your first competition on Saturday. While it's allowed, you'll still be crap and you will have no break fall ability, especially since we tend to pull guard and remove the standup portion all together. Pit that guy against a seasoned Judo black belt who has an insane Seoi Nage and that white belt is possibly going to land in the hospital.
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I didn't know that was the main reason.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Yup, I had a judo BB who trained at my place compete in an IBJJF tourney and wrote them to ask specifics. They just told him to register at and also wear a bluebelt.
JDBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I’ve seen this circumstance happen a few times... a long time ago, when I was blood thirsty white belt, wearing bjj is life tshirts and eating anything Brazilian because I thought it would turn me into Goku faster.
I read a book on Dave Camarillo, “flying attack guy”. He holds black belts in both Judo and Bjj. He clearly outlines that they are 2 very different sports. I rolled with black belt judo guys as a white belt and of course got thrown accross the room for my insolence... 2 very different flows.
If we had a good judo club here where I am at I would be happy to strap on the old white belt and respect the traditions of that art and I would expect to see the same respect in turn. If he’s a black belt killer in judo, then surely the climb up the bjj ranks should be no problem.... not much of an explanation I’m sorry. Just rambling while on the pot
I read a book on Dave Camarillo, “flying attack guy”. He holds black belts in both Judo and Bjj. He clearly outlines that they are 2 very different sports. I rolled with black belt judo guys as a white belt and of course got thrown accross the room for my insolence... 2 very different flows.
If we had a good judo club here where I am at I would be happy to strap on the old white belt and respect the traditions of that art and I would expect to see the same respect in turn. If he’s a black belt killer in judo, then surely the climb up the bjj ranks should be no problem.... not much of an explanation I’m sorry. Just rambling while on the pot
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
In general I find among judo BBs about as large variety in ground skills as in BJJ BBs standup grappling skills :)
JDBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
In general I find among judo BBs about as large variety in ground skills as in BJJ BBs standup grappling skills :)
Judo does seem to be vanishing into the sunset as a stand alone art. It’s becoming more and more hybridized into everything. Would be fun to roll again with some battle tested BB judo guys See if I learned a thing or 2 since white belt
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
In general I find among judo BBs about as large variety in ground skills as in BJJ BBs standup grappling skills :)
Definitely. I had been doing quite a few Judo competitions right before the Coronapocalypse hit, and in Judo all ranks compete in the same division so I had the opportunity to compete against guys of all levels. Predictably, just like all BJJ BB's aren't created equally, neither are Judo BB's. I don't know why a Judo BB would be any different than anybody else as far as your gym is concerned. They come in, you see what they can do, you help them round out the sharp edges and then you give them a blue belt depending on how quickly they buff things out. IBJJF has no required amount of time you should spend at blue belt, so whether they get the belt at 4 years or just 10 weeks, it shouldn't really matter. As far as competition goes, I think you'd get a much different performance from a competition judo BB and a hobbyist judo BB.
SCBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Ah ok, so it's only for competing that rule is in effect? No, he won't be recieving any belt from me yet in that case... :-)
Has he put in any time in your gym yet? Dont even worry about him and that belt at this moment. DOes he even want to "train" in BJJ or just roll around/???
We have a Two JUDO national champs from thier respected countries in out gym and one is amazingly good in judo but a child in the BJJ area.. BUt he doesnt want to train BJJ at all. he just likes to roll around.. I mean he shows up early for his class and does some rolls in before he starts his JUDO class. As for the belt. He is content to just wearing his JUDO belt and NOT looking to complete in any BJJ competitions ever. so we leave it at that.. HE just knows that he cant wear the on that signifies a BJJ black belt.
Now when he get a chance to roll with me ( just about every time he comes in) HE will try to test himself against me to weightout where he would actually be in the realm of belts but * at the time i was purple belt * so he "THINKS" hes close to that level. BUT again he doenst want to formally train in BJJ so it is what it is. KInda the same with the other JUDO black belt.. they are happen to stick with thier judo black belt.
We have a Two JUDO national champs from thier respected countries in out gym and one is amazingly good in judo but a child in the BJJ area.. BUt he doesnt want to train BJJ at all. he just likes to roll around.. I mean he shows up early for his class and does some rolls in before he starts his JUDO class. As for the belt. He is content to just wearing his JUDO belt and NOT looking to complete in any BJJ competitions ever. so we leave it at that.. HE just knows that he cant wear the on that signifies a BJJ black belt.
Now when he get a chance to roll with me ( just about every time he comes in) HE will try to test himself against me to weightout where he would actually be in the realm of belts but * at the time i was purple belt * so he "THINKS" hes close to that level. BUT again he doenst want to formally train in BJJ so it is what it is. KInda the same with the other JUDO black belt.. they are happen to stick with thier judo black belt.
DPBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Judo black belts, mma pros, wrestlers with national experience, ecc must enter blue belt divisions in competition, for example in ibjjf or fila wrestling. But it doesn't mean they are awarded a blue belt automatically. They should be awarded by their master. Oss
SZBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
We have a Judo Black Belt that has trained with us for several years. He does Judo competitions regularly and is highly ranked in his division. He put on a white belt when he started BJJ and progressed through the ranks like anyone else. He is currently a 2 Stripe Purple Belt.
SCBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Fun fact. I actually fought travis Stevens as a blue belt in a tournament while before he started training for he Olympics. I didn't know who he was until after the match. Lost by submission the last 45secs of the match but didn't get taken down. My wrestling helps wondered against judo guys
ZBBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
This happened to me. I was a Judo BB long years before I started Jiu-Jitsu but I put on a white belt and started from ground zero. However, when I showed up to my 1st BJJ competition the organizers knew of my Judo background and did not let me compete as a white belt. I had to move up one belt and one weight class. This did not award me a blue belt automatically at my academy, I just had to compete as a blue belt. However, after my team saw me throwing some nasty Ippons at BJJ tournaments I was entrusted to help and teach take down classes. I would help BJJ Black Belts as a blue belt, but that did not make a difference or accelerate my BJJ belt. Jiu Jitsu IS different... and Gracie Humaita is very strict, there are no shortcuts so I had to put in my time (gladly) just like everyone else. It took 12 years to get my BJJ Black Belt. I still teach takedown classes but now understanding JiuJitsu ...well... somewhat :) I modified most of my Judo techniques specifically for Jiu Jitsu. Rules dictate behavior, and BJJ guys move differently.
CBBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Jiu Jitsu IS different...
I have to say, I really wish I would hear this from more Judoka. I've had three guys at my local club try a BJJ tournament. I tried to help them out by telling them the rules and giving them a few points in Judo they need to avoid, turning on your stomach for example, and I got constantly brushed off with the phrase, "It's all just basically Judo".
They all got smashed in the first round. One of them was arguing with the ref that he should have stood them back up after the opponent pulled guard. Another was shocked at getting wrist locked.
They all got smashed in the first round. One of them was arguing with the ref that he should have stood them back up after the opponent pulled guard. Another was shocked at getting wrist locked.
SCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I have to say, I really wish I would hear this from more Judoka. I've had three guys at my local club try a BJJ tournament. I tried to help them out by telling them the rules and giving them a few points in Judo they need to avoid, turning on your stomach for example, and I got constantly brushed off with the phrase, 'It's all just basically Judo'. They all got smashed in the first round. One of them was arguing with the ref that he should have stood them back up after the opponent pulled guard. Another was shocked at getting wrist locked.
Yup, I've known quite a few judo players who think that BJJ is "basically judo." With that being said, I've also known many who are under no such illusions.
CBBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Personally, I blame Chadi's YouTube channel. :-D :-D :-D :-D
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
This happened to me. I was a Judo BB long years before I started Jiu-Jitsu but I put on a white belt and started from ground zero. However, when I showed up to my 1st BJJ competition the organizers knew of my Judo background and did not let me compete as a white belt. I had to move up one belt and one weight class. This did not award me a blue belt automatically at my academy, I just had to compete as a blue belt. However, after my team saw me throwing some nasty Ippons at BJJ tournaments I was entrusted to help and teach take down classes. I would help BJJ Black Belts as a blue belt, but that did not make a difference or accelerate my BJJ belt. Jiu Jitsu IS different... and Gracie Humaita is very strict, there are no shortcuts so I had to put in my time (gladly) just like everyone else. It took 12 years to get my BJJ Black Belt. I still teach takedown classes but now understanding JiuJitsu ...well... somewhat :) I modified most of my Judo techniques specifically for Jiu Jitsu. Rules dictate behavior, and BJJ guys move differently.
This is, in my opinion, how it should be. There are Judo black belts and then there are Judo Black Belts and, of course, there are certain gyms and countries that concentrate more on the newaza than others. Each individual should still have to "earn" the blue belt, in my opinion, but someone with your background and experience should get it MUCH faster (obviously).
I had a guy training with us who was a 3rd or 4th dan and one of the head coaches at one of the bigger Judo schools in the area. I put a blue belt on him after about 3 months because his skill set was clearly there. But I've had other Judo black belts that took well over a year.
But they shouldn't be automatically handed that belt, in my opinion.
I had a guy training with us who was a 3rd or 4th dan and one of the head coaches at one of the bigger Judo schools in the area. I put a blue belt on him after about 3 months because his skill set was clearly there. But I've had other Judo black belts that took well over a year.
But they shouldn't be automatically handed that belt, in my opinion.
FGBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
This is, in my opinion, how it should be. There are Judo black belts and then there are Judo Black Belts and, of course, there are certain gyms and countries that concentrate more on the newaza than others. Each individual should still have to 'earn' the blue belt, in my opinion, but someone with your background and experience should get it MUCH faster (obviously). I had a guy training with us who was a 3rd or 4th dan and one of the head coaches at one of the bigger Judo schools in the area. I put a blue belt on him after about 3 months because his skill set was clearly there. But I've had other Judo black belts that took well over a year. But they shouldn't be automatically handed that belt, in my opinion.
This!
They must earn the rank! And yes some will earn it much faster than others due to competitive prowess and functional ground skills developed in Judo. Whereas others may have great tachiwaza but be completely lacking in newaza and will take at least a year or two to earn their blue belts.
That being said, as much as I dislike the IBJJF, I totally understand why they make Judo black belts compete in the blue belt division. As much as I love Jiu Jitsu, a lot of academies don't train enough takedowns and if a white bet was thrown but a Judo black belt, there is an extremely high chance that they could get seriously injured!
They must earn the rank! And yes some will earn it much faster than others due to competitive prowess and functional ground skills developed in Judo. Whereas others may have great tachiwaza but be completely lacking in newaza and will take at least a year or two to earn their blue belts.
That being said, as much as I dislike the IBJJF, I totally understand why they make Judo black belts compete in the blue belt division. As much as I love Jiu Jitsu, a lot of academies don't train enough takedowns and if a white bet was thrown but a Judo black belt, there is an extremely high chance that they could get seriously injured!
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Yes talk to people who trained with Travis Stevens when he first started BJJ and ask that question
CBBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Yes talk to people who trained with Travis Stevens when he first started BJJ and ask that question
Interestingly enough, I think his take on this one is too extreme in the other direction. There are many interviews where he has specifically stated that there is absolutely no overlap between BJJ and Judo. :0: 0 :0
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Interestingly enough, I think his take on this one is too extreme in the other direction. There are many interviews where he has specifically stated that there is absolutely no overlap between BJJ and Judo. :0: 0 :0
When I trained with him he did not express that opinion at all.
