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Paying AT graduation. (not to be graduated)
6 year(s) ago • 4286 views • 27 replies
GLPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Is it normal for most to pay the coach at graduation. My old coach never charged anyone not even for the belt as it was his pleasure to promote, he did it randomly on any night.
My new coach told us there will be graduation soon, and has messaged me today asking for my belt size and saying that I need to pay 65euros for the belt, certificate and graduation.
For me this seems strange, our gym doesn't have custom belts... a certificate costs next to nothing.... and he's not promoting anyone that isn't worthy. This isn't a case of anyone who pays gets promoted its if you are chosen then you have to pay.
I respect my coach a lot, I love my team, I don't want to and I won't go to another gym. And I will pay, because thats whats done here. But im curious to how others see this....
For coaches that do charge, what would you do if a students didn't pay for the graduation?
Cheers!
GAz
My new coach told us there will be graduation soon, and has messaged me today asking for my belt size and saying that I need to pay 65euros for the belt, certificate and graduation.
For me this seems strange, our gym doesn't have custom belts... a certificate costs next to nothing.... and he's not promoting anyone that isn't worthy. This isn't a case of anyone who pays gets promoted its if you are chosen then you have to pay.
I respect my coach a lot, I love my team, I don't want to and I won't go to another gym. And I will pay, because thats whats done here. But im curious to how others see this....
For coaches that do charge, what would you do if a students didn't pay for the graduation?
Cheers!
GAz
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I was in this same situation about 12 years ago now. I wound up not going to the testing, which really pissed of my instructor, and he made a point to give some long-winded speech in front of everyone on how you can't just choose your own belt rank; that it wasn't up to you. I knew the speech was directed at me but I just ignored it and kept training.
My instructor talked to me later and I explained that it was a money thing and I wasn't against the promotion, but I just didn't think it was worth the money. He seemed to accept this answer and I got my blue belt like a week later.
The moral of the story is that you should stand your ground and not pay the money. What is he going to do but move on? Either you're a blue belt or your not. It's amazing what people are letting other people get away with at some of these gyms. Smh.
My instructor talked to me later and I explained that it was a money thing and I wasn't against the promotion, but I just didn't think it was worth the money. He seemed to accept this answer and I got my blue belt like a week later.
The moral of the story is that you should stand your ground and not pay the money. What is he going to do but move on? Either you're a blue belt or your not. It's amazing what people are letting other people get away with at some of these gyms. Smh.
DHPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I'm of the opinion that given you already pay fees to attend classes, the cost of a belt (and maybe the certificate) should really be covered by the instructor. Here, a belt costs about AUD$20, so I'd question why you're being charged EUR€65 (~AUD$105!) for a belt, certificate, and "graduation".
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I was never charged for my gradings belts, and up til black belt I didn't receive any certificate and had to buy my own belts on my own. When I started promoting others I don't charge either and I present them their belt and framed certificate at no cost. I don't tag on any prerequisites like a private training/ assessment or rank registration fee after the fact. Those who do this and have their students pay - this was probably what the instructors were conditioned to do. To each their own and you can make your choice but belts (wholesale) are cheap unless it's a personalized belt and a piece of paper with some printer ink doesn't cost much either.
GLPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Thanks for your replies so far!
Another students who is being promoted asked my coach about the fee and he says he's registering us with both the Spanish federation (where we live) and the Brazilian federation (Where coach is from and our lineage).
Another thought, Ive always liked standing in the line hoping coach will call my name for a stripe or more. Did you know you were getting promoted or do you promote people without them knowing in advance? Or inform them before. I would prefer not knowing.
Another students who is being promoted asked my coach about the fee and he says he's registering us with both the Spanish federation (where we live) and the Brazilian federation (Where coach is from and our lineage).
Another thought, Ive always liked standing in the line hoping coach will call my name for a stripe or more. Did you know you were getting promoted or do you promote people without them knowing in advance? Or inform them before. I would prefer not knowing.
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Did you know you were getting promoted or do you promote people without them knowing in advance? Or inform them before. I would prefer not knowing.
Did you know you were getting promoted - Nope
or do you promote people without them knowing in advance - Yes
Or inform them before - Nope
It's a subjective call and it's largely based on the individual's goals for training, be it self preservation, sport or art, then I assess their age/injuries/abilities accordingly and when milestones are met (if there are any quantifiable ones, eg. winning a comp, losing X-kg, being able to do XYZ technique against a better skilled partner with resistance consistently, then they get bumped up) so not just for showing up, putting in time, but also whether the person is helpful & supportive of others, when appropriate, etc. are also considered.
or do you promote people without them knowing in advance - Yes
Or inform them before - Nope
It's a subjective call and it's largely based on the individual's goals for training, be it self preservation, sport or art, then I assess their age/injuries/abilities accordingly and when milestones are met (if there are any quantifiable ones, eg. winning a comp, losing X-kg, being able to do XYZ technique against a better skilled partner with resistance consistently, then they get bumped up) so not just for showing up, putting in time, but also whether the person is helpful & supportive of others, when appropriate, etc. are also considered.
TPBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Another thought, Ive always liked standing in the line hoping coach will call my name for a stripe or more. Did you know you were getting promoted or do you promote people without them knowing in advance? Or inform them before. I would prefer not knowing.
Some more discussion about promotions here: https://beltchecker.com/f[...]p;id=25503
![Slideyfoot [jun]](userimg/5e25cf311adfd.jpg){kind=small}
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I very strongly disagree with anybody paying anything for promotion. I think making a connection between money and rank risks it being an income stream, which is dangerous. That's ruined numerous martial arts, TKD being the most obvious example. Charging separately for belt costs is shady too, that should be included in membership fees. After all, each person is only going to get one belt every few years, which costs around £7 per belt, an amount easily absorbed by monthly fees.
However, saying that, there are legitimate reasons you might have a cost attached. E.g., if the head coach is a lower belt and brings in a black belt to do the promoting: it's not unreasonable that the black belt at least gets travel costs covered, plus teaching etc. I'm in that situation, so what I do is have a seminar before the grading: that way, I can give my instructor some money to cover his travel etc. So, if people want to go to the seminar (about 2hrs, normally), then they pay £20, which goes to my instructor (I don't take any money).
However, the actual grading part directly after that is free, so students can still just go to that and not pay anything. I will never make any student directly pay in order to get a belt.
However, saying that, there are legitimate reasons you might have a cost attached. E.g., if the head coach is a lower belt and brings in a black belt to do the promoting: it's not unreasonable that the black belt at least gets travel costs covered, plus teaching etc. I'm in that situation, so what I do is have a seminar before the grading: that way, I can give my instructor some money to cover his travel etc. So, if people want to go to the seminar (about 2hrs, normally), then they pay £20, which goes to my instructor (I don't take any money).
However, the actual grading part directly after that is free, so students can still just go to that and not pay anything. I will never make any student directly pay in order to get a belt.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
TPBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Very much agree with Can here.
If the club has to bring in an affiliate black belt to test/evaluate the promotees, naturally he/she should be compensated for their time. But would be way cooler if that was reimbursed by the club and not the individual(s).
The student has already proved to be worthy of the new rank in other ways, is paying the training fees, and a charge on top for the promotion would feel very disheartening for me. That, if anything, should not be about money.
A belt costs €10 tops, way less for the gym if they import their own, to print out a cert. certainly not a lot. Federation fees can be costly, so perhaps that can add up to €65, but it should be the promotee's choice if they want to register to those. (Mandatory membership to multiple sport federations, besides just the gym in question, seem very odd to me.)
If the club has to bring in an affiliate black belt to test/evaluate the promotees, naturally he/she should be compensated for their time. But would be way cooler if that was reimbursed by the club and not the individual(s).
The student has already proved to be worthy of the new rank in other ways, is paying the training fees, and a charge on top for the promotion would feel very disheartening for me. That, if anything, should not be about money.
A belt costs €10 tops, way less for the gym if they import their own, to print out a cert. certainly not a lot. Federation fees can be costly, so perhaps that can add up to €65, but it should be the promotee's choice if they want to register to those. (Mandatory membership to multiple sport federations, besides just the gym in question, seem very odd to me.)
DBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
If there's money involved for registrations, it should be communicated and charged separately.
There can be a fee for seminar, feedback etc but IMO not per grading/belt per se.
There can be a fee for seminar, feedback etc but IMO not per grading/belt per se.
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Another students who is being promoted asked my coach about the fee and he says he's registering us with both the Spanish federation (where we live) and the Brazilian federation (Where coach is from and our lineage).
But how important is it to you, personally, to be registered with these federations? Does it really matter that much? Is it worth all that money for you? Now it's time to see if your gym/"family" and instructor are really as awesome as you think they are. Will they stand by you even when you don't feel like toeing the line?
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Definitely don't think it's cool to charge for promotions. Find that money elsewhere and avoid these awkward situations. Charge €5 more a month and it'll generate that easily.
SCBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
well my professor charges the person the cost of the belt from our organization( nothing more). but if they already had a belt he will be more than happy to give you that one. As for our brown and black belts ( and now we are doing it for out purple belts) . one of the higher belts would purchase the belt to present to whom was getting promoted. My Black belt was gift from multiple people in my gym as so was my training partners. I have bought a few brown belts and purple belts to present to students. so we figure we might adapt that. . as for the blue belts.. your stuck lol
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Charging for promotions is bullshit. I never have and I never will. You did the work and you earned the promotions. How can there be a charge?
Ridiculous
Ridiculous
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
well my professor charges the person the cost of the belt from our organization( nothing more). but if they already had a belt he will be more than happy to give you that one. As for our brown and black belts ( and now we are doing it for out purple belts) . one of the higher belts would purchase the belt to present to whom was getting promoted. My Black belt was gift from multiple people in my gym as so was my training partners. I have bought a few brown belts and purple belts to present to students. so we figure we might adapt that. . as for the blue belts.. your stuck lol
I don't understand why even bother making the cost of the belt a transaction. Seriously, belts shouldn't cost more than $5-10 wholesale, I would never ask someone, who has been a paying, loyal customer for years, to cover that. If someone eats in my restaurant every day for years and years, hell yes they're getting free coffee. Even if the belt was $50, I would still gift that every single time.
SBBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
My gym is truly a hand to mouth situation. We don't pay for promotions or belts. My instructor manages to find the $20 to buy the belt. We don't do a big promotion ceremony and if we did it would be a pot luck situation and everyone would contribute. Sounds like it's a money grab to me.
GLPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
But how important is it to you, personally, to be registered with these federations? Does it really matter that much? Is it worth all that money for you? Now it's time to see if your gym/'family' and instructor are really as awesome as you think they are. Will they stand by you even when you don't feel like toeing the line?
It matters 0 for me to be registered with these federations.... especially 2. Do you even normally register blue belts?
For the gym side.... When I moved to the city 2 years ago, I spent 6 months looking for the correct gym. There are others but no where near as close as the group here.
For the gym side.... When I moved to the city 2 years ago, I spent 6 months looking for the correct gym. There are others but no where near as close as the group here.
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Some larger organizations/federations include sports/liability insurance which may be included in the registration fee - paving the way to you ability to compete, etc. with adequate insurance coverage.
CBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Charging for belt testing and promotions is just another step to McDojo life imo. I'm glad I left Alliance and didn't have to test for blue, which I got like 2 weeks after joining Brasa. I think paying the membership of a gym is enough and you can always pay for seminars and privates, if you feel like you want to spend more. Oh and let's not forget fancy new pajamas!
SCBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I know that one dude that changed to our gym and the place he came from was charging for every single thing. Every stripe is $20, and every test is $50 and the belt and certification was also $50... plus they had to a mandatory of 5 privates at $100 a pop through out the year. so add all that up if they are been a certain belt for a few years... that made me sick. his mom was like i thought that was normal...
MBrown beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
The only thing I always paid for were regular Seminar fees for teaching and fees for Privates....
So far I never was charged any money by any of the Coaches I had, independent of Affiliation, for promotion, belt testing, or grading.
So far I never was charged any money by any of the Coaches I had, independent of Affiliation, for promotion, belt testing, or grading.
BBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I will never charge for a promotion or make people attend seminars to be promoted. That’s complete trash.
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I know that one dude that changed to our gym and the place he came from was charging for every single thing. Every stripe is $20, and every test is $50 and the belt and certification was also $50... plus they had to a mandatory of 5 privates at $100 a pop through out the year. so add all that up if they are been a certain belt for a few years... that made me sick. his mom was like i thought that was normal...
wow! milking the cow 24/7
GLPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Sooo.... Tonight I actually got promoted. (a week "early", from my coaches said date.) Which means I wasn't in my team GI (angry face)
We received Tatami and kind belts, they cost 17eur here,
We get certificates to Spanish and Brazilian federations (I sort know costs but) lets say 15eur each
So at a guess, my coach makes 18eur of each promotion. (of course stripes are free)
Im trying to work my way around the math, The gym isn't his bjj gym. its a gym where he does classes. 10 hours bjj and 8 hours MT a week. I dunno his pay. I dunno his cut from the 60eur I pay for bjj ONLY a month.
End of the day... he promoted me before I gave money. (I thought I still had another week to pay). There are a few people in the gym that are as good as me IMO that he didn't promote, so I don't think he does it for the money. They are quality belts.... and although I don't need or care for 2 federations there is money for that.
Overall, id rather not pay (wouldn't we all) but not as scammed as I first thought I was being.
We received Tatami and kind belts, they cost 17eur here,
We get certificates to Spanish and Brazilian federations (I sort know costs but) lets say 15eur each
So at a guess, my coach makes 18eur of each promotion. (of course stripes are free)
Im trying to work my way around the math, The gym isn't his bjj gym. its a gym where he does classes. 10 hours bjj and 8 hours MT a week. I dunno his pay. I dunno his cut from the 60eur I pay for bjj ONLY a month.
End of the day... he promoted me before I gave money. (I thought I still had another week to pay). There are a few people in the gym that are as good as me IMO that he didn't promote, so I don't think he does it for the money. They are quality belts.... and although I don't need or care for 2 federations there is money for that.
Overall, id rather not pay (wouldn't we all) but not as scammed as I first thought I was being.
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I don't judge how other people do things I think it depends on the coach and their view of teaching as a business..
I don't charge for lessons so I am a bad example
I don't charge for lessons so I am a bad example
LSBrown beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
At our academy we don't pay for graduation or for the belt.
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Sooo.... Tonight I actually got promoted. (a week 'early', from my coaches said date.)
Congratulations, man!
