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Breaking: IBJJF to Start Allowing Reaps and Heel Hooks in 2021

5 year(s) ago • 3019 views • 31 replies

Tatu Piispanen
Tatu Piispanen
Black beltVerified1355 forum posts10295/1000
5 year(s) ago
Could this be for real?? Today's is not April Fool's Day...

https://www.bjjee.com/art[...]s-in-2021/

"Great news for leg lockers major changes are coming to the IBJJF and their rule set. An official IBJJF referee and 3rd degree black belt, Thiago Stefanutti has just announced that IBJJF will be allowing reaping and heel hooks in the brown and black belt divisions at No Gi competitions starting from 2021.

Stefanutti got the news in exclusivity from IBJJF and announced the news on the Absolute MMA academy Facebook group"
Aris
Aris
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified60 forum posts5180/1000
5 year(s) ago
That’s going to Be interesting, orthopedic surgeons will make a fortune for the first couple of years.
Francesco Fonte
Francesco Fonte
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified496 forum posts8855/1000
5 year(s) ago
IBJJF clearly got inside news about the end of the world coming next month so they are just making everything they can for us to be happy in our final weeks.
Christian Graugart
Christian Graugart
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4323 forum posts39320/1000
5 year(s) ago
That’s going to Be interesting, orthopedic surgeons will make a fortune for the first couple of years.
Well it's been allowed in NAGA etc. forever, so I doubt much will change
Christian Graugart
Christian Graugart
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4323 forum posts39320/1000
5 year(s) ago
Next question is, why not allow it with the gi as well? Advanced practitioners are good enough to compete with heelhooks, but not if they're WEARING PANTS?

I think the obvious reason for disallowing it in the first place is, that it will make a lot of people uncomfortable with competing there = they'll loose business. Personally, after 3 knee surgeries, countless sprains and 20 years of twisting them, I also think twice about competing in leglock frenzies. Injured myself and others enough in competition with leglocks; I'm focusing on keeping a long-term training career at this point.
Aris
Aris
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified60 forum posts5180/1000
5 year(s) ago
Well it's been allowed in NAGA etc. forever, so I doubt much will change
True but the number of people competing is not comparable this rule change will make significant impact and change in training methods strategy etc. vast majority of schools train thinking the ibjjf rules rather NAGA and ADCC, I don’t think is going to be like an easy transition...
Christian Graugart
Christian Graugart
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4323 forum posts39320/1000
5 year(s) ago
True but the number of people competing is not comparable this rule change will make significant impact and change in training methods strategy etc. vast majority of schools train thinking the ibjjf rules rather NAGA and ADCC, I don’t think is going to be like an easy transition...
That's true. Will probably also creating more separation internally in gyms when members need to train for two very different strategies gi/no-gi.
Francesco Fonte
Francesco Fonte
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified496 forum posts8855/1000
5 year(s) ago
I think the overlooked issue with heel hooks in the gi is actually the jacket and not the pants (which by themselves anyway make defence harder due to friction and a different feeling of the slack around the knee).
The jacket can get more or less involuntarily wrapped on the foot creating tensions that are out of the control (and the intention) of the attacker. Rare but possible and dangerous. On the other hand, there's a whole new field of study there, heel hooks where you secure opponent's ankle with your lapel oO
William Murphy
William Murphy
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts25730/1000
5 year(s) ago
A point of trivia that I don't expect anyone to care about.

I was mentioned in the article regarding a petition I circulated a few years ago.

The contents of the petition were AGAIN misquoted as they sensationally were when I released the petition.

The petition I wrote advocated mandatory referee intervention when submissions were locked in for kids under the age of 12, as done by the IBJJF, Gracie Worlds, and NAGA style rules:

"Child safety conscious BJJ tournaments such as the Gracie Worlds do not allow the referee to wait for the children under the age of 12 to tap to a submission. These tournaments will not award a win or points for submissions or submission attempts. If one of the children under the age of 12 attempts a submission-like move on another child under the age of 12, the referee merely restarts the match in a safe position, to remove the incentive for children under the age of 12 to try and attempt chokes or joint locks on their under the age of 12 peers in an attempt to end the match. This is a much safer way to introduce children under the age of 12 to the sport and skills of BJJ than allowing them to try and use submission attempts on their peers under the age of 12 to win their matches. Other large tournaments such as those ran by the IBJJF and NAGA, also address this issue by requiring the referee to stop the match before the child taps, whenever possible, which is another way to prudently address this situation."

Almost no one actually read the petition, whose point was to advocate mandatory referee intervention when submissions were locked in, by the under age 12 divisions.

The motivation for the petition was I had attended a fair number of small promotion tournaments where white belt or non-grappling trained referees were not intervening early as kids under the age of 12 were choked out, had their arms injured, or were being picked up by their neck in guillotines, because the young kids did not know to tap, or their idiot fat ass parents were screaming "don't tap" from the sidelines.

The petition I actually wrote here:

https://www.change.org/p/[...]ns-illegal

I don't expect anyone to care at this point, but even in the URL of the petition "early referee stoppage" was mentioned, and it was surprising how widely the petition was misquoted and turned into click bait.

And still is....
R. David Gonzalez
R. David Gonzalez
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4764 forum posts34325/1000
5 year(s) ago
A point of trivia that I don't expect anyone to care about. I was mentioned in the article regarding a petition I circulated a few years ago. The contents of the petition were AGAIN misquoted as they sensationally were when I released the petition. The petition I wrote advocated mandatory referee intervention when submissions were locked in for kids under the age of 12, as done by the IBJJF, Gracie Worlds, and NAGA style rules: 'Child safety conscious BJJ tournaments such as the Gracie Worlds do not allow the referee to wait for the children under the age of 12 to tap to a submission. These tournaments will not award a win or points for submissions or submission attempts. If one of the children under the age of 12 attempts a submission-like move on another child under the age of 12, the referee merely restarts the match in a safe position, to remove the incentive for children under the age of 12 to try and attempt chokes or joint locks on their under the age of 12 peers in an attempt to end the match. This is a much safer way to introduce children under the age of 12 to the sport and skills of BJJ than allowing them to try and use submission attempts on their peers under the age of 12 to win their matches. Other large tournaments such as those ran by the IBJJF and NAGA, also address this issue by requiring the referee to stop the match before the child taps, whenever possible, which is another way to prudently address this situation.' Almost no one actually read the petition, whose point was to advocate mandatory referee intervention when submissions were locked in, by the under age 12 divisions. The motivation for the petition was I had attended a fair number of small promotion tournaments where white belt or non-grappling trained referees were not intervening early as kids under the age of 12 were choked out, had their arms injured, or were being picked up by their neck in guillotines, because the young kids did not know to tap, or their idiot fat ass parents were screaming 'don't tap' from the sidelines. The petition I actually wrote here: https://www.change.org/p/[...]ns-illegal I don't expect anyone to care at this point, but even in the URL of the petition 'early referee stoppage' was mentioned, and it was surprising how widely the petition was misquoted and turned into click bait. And still is....
I would have signed it Bill.
Aris
Aris
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified60 forum posts5180/1000
5 year(s) ago
I hope neck cranks are never allowed. Lol
Already there are tons of Neck injuries with out allowing them, i have serius neck issues spine issues after 20 years and tell you truth i don't know when i be able to train again if ever... So if something like this is going to be allowed i believe there will be many carreer ending injuries... and could be far worse than a screwed up knee...
William Murphy
William Murphy
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts25730/1000
5 year(s) ago
I would have signed it Bill.
Several Gracies did.

And of course the larger tournament promotions have those exact policies for a reason.

However, new people to the sport often forget these techniques do cause injury, and 8 years olds hearing their Dads yell "don't tap" even when their Dads have no grappling experience and live vicariously through them, will try to please Dad, which is precisely why we should have trained referees looking out for the kids safety.
R. David Gonzalez
R. David Gonzalez
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4764 forum posts34325/1000
5 year(s) ago
Already there are tons of Neck injuries with out allowing them, i have serius neck issues spine issues after 20 years and tell you truth i don't know when i be able to train again if ever... So if something like this is going to be allowed i believe there will be many carreer ending injuries... and could be far worse than a screwed up knee...
I agree..I am dealing with an old neck injury that has flare up now.
I got neck cranked by a black belt during a seminar 18 years ago and it has never been normal.
Tatu Piispanen
Tatu PiispanenOP
Black beltVerified1355 forum posts10295/1000
5 year(s) ago
I hope neck cranks are never allowed
I accidentally applied a crucifix neck crank to a white belt the other day, lol. In the gi. It's one of the few techniques not allowed even in ADCC Pro rules. Was trying to do something completely different but thankfully with enough control that it was easy to back off when I realized what is about to happen (he had no clue) so zero damage done, but could've gone very wrong with more reckless application.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
Deepu
Deepu
Black beltVerified547 forum posts6410/1000
5 year(s) ago
Next question is, why not allow it with the gi as well? Advanced practitioners are good enough to compete with heelhooks, but not if they're WEARING PANTS? I think the obvious reason for disallowing it in the first place is, that it will make a lot of people uncomfortable with competing there = they'll loose business. Personally, after 3 knee surgeries, countless sprains and 20 years of twisting them, I also think twice about competing in leglock frenzies. Injured myself and others enough in competition with leglocks; I'm focusing on keeping a long-term training career at this point.
Traction makes a difference in the leg entanglement part.
Alexander King-Zhang
Alexander King-Zhang
Purple beltVerified661 forum posts2020/400
5 year(s) ago
That's true. Will probably also creating more separation internally in gyms when members need to train for two very different strategies gi/no-gi.
Well NAGA has the most permissive rules in NoGi and then flipping IBJJF rules in Gi. Their intention is to have something first everyone, but the reality is that they attract NoGi competitors and then everyone goes home. The Gi divisions are dead.

Most competitors aren't brown or black belts anyway, so I'm not sure how much difference this will make. But I doubt it'll convert non-leg lockers over.
Christian Graugart
Christian Graugart
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4323 forum posts39320/1000
5 year(s) ago
Traction makes a difference in the leg entanglement part.
It's black belts, most with over a decade of training - they should be able to handle themselves with pants on too imo
Edited 5 year(s) ago
Scott Chiriboga
Scott Chiriboga
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified940 forum posts54915/1000
5 year(s) ago
Could this be for real?? Today's is not April Fool's Day... https://www.bjjee.com/art[...]s-in-2021/ 'Great news for leg lockers major changes are coming to the IBJJF and their rule set. An official IBJJF referee and 3rd degree black belt, Thiago Stefanutti has just announced that IBJJF will be allowing reaping and heel hooks in the brown and black belt divisions at No Gi competitions starting from 2021. Stefanutti got the news in exclusivity from IBJJF and announced the news on the Absolute MMA academy Facebook group'
If this is accurate, I'm pretty stoked.
Jan Vlastník
Jan Vlastník
Black beltVerified58 forum posts2265/1000
5 year(s) ago
If someone is a great fighter with a gameplan focused on wrestling and points, he will create a minimum of opportunities for the leglocker.

The fun would start the moment if, for example, saddle or ashi-garami were scoring positions as well by IBJJF rules as side-control.

Then it would be something else :D
Alexander King-Zhang
Alexander King-Zhang
Purple beltVerified661 forum posts2020/400
5 year(s) ago
If someone is a great fighter with a gameplan focused on wrestling and points, he will create a minimum of opportunities for the leglocker. The fun would start the moment if, for example, saddle or ashi-garami were scoring positions as well by IBJJF rules as side-control. Then it would be something else :D
411 is worth 4 points for sure, but you're probably going to get the sub anyway
Jan Vlastník
Jan Vlastník
Black beltVerified58 forum posts2265/1000
5 year(s) ago
411 is worth 4 points for sure, but you're probably going to get the sub anyway
My experience says that a purely submission hunting game plan is not the most suitable for scoring matches. I mostly lost on points. I just want to say that even leglockers have to fundamentally change the gameplan for IBJJF tournaments .. it's not a one-sided problem.
Chris Baker
Chris Baker
Brown beltVerified573 forum posts3175/700
5 year(s) ago
Well it's been allowed in NAGA etc. forever, so I doubt much will change
Think the same thing here too. In Judo this would be a big deal because leg submissions are basically off limits and no one thinks about it, but in BJJ, we've had plenty of legal leg locks since forever. Even white belts are allowed to footlock. If you've learned how to successfully defend again Knee bars, footlocks, toe holds, calf slicers and estima locks, adding heelhooks to that list isn't that big a deal. This is more a variation on a theme that a complete upending of the game.

I think people act like this is going to change a lot because they roll with people who are playing by the current ruleset and can catch them by surprise with a heelhook. Thing is, the minute the rules change and both are playing by the same ruleset, they'll be expecting it and the surprise attack won't be effective anymore.
Tatu Piispanen
Tatu PiispanenOP
Black beltVerified1355 forum posts10295/1000
5 year(s) ago
We are a competition-oriented school with international focus mainly on the big IBJJF events (Euros/Worlds) and ”no-gi” has been meaning ADCC rules since forever.
Jorgen Matsi
Jorgen Matsi
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified1772 forum posts17315/1000
5 year(s) ago
Pants with full leg attacks allowed will take the meta too much towards that as freeing the knee is sufficiently harder with increased friction meaning matches would be a race for either who gets 4/11 first or 50/50 battles. It just makes sense risk/reward wise and there's no good counter to that. If you feel that your opponent is better at leg game than you, what'll you do? Pull guard first LOL?
Leãozinho
Leãozinho
White beltVerified3 forum posts0/0
5 year(s) ago
I am one of the heretics that loves the points game and the IBJJF ruleset. Even to watch. Even in gi. In saying that, including heel hooks within the rules has been a long time coming.

I think allowing heel hooks in the gi would probably be a step too far because as much as so many people find buttscooting boring, well, seeing it in a gi and the added friction that entails would produce the most inane style of matches to watch, even for the forementioned points-loving heretic.

As for still only allowing reaping at brown and above, well, that's still silly imo.

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