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New Rules: IBJJF and Heel Hooks
5 year(s) ago • 4139 views • 37 replies
DFBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Fellow Jiujiteros,
I'd love to hear from those competing in IBJJF tournaments, how you're preparing/processing the inclusion of heel hooks and knee reaps for brown/black belt competitions in 2021. Anything concerning or are you excited about the prospects?
I'd love to hear from those competing in IBJJF tournaments, how you're preparing/processing the inclusion of heel hooks and knee reaps for brown/black belt competitions in 2021. Anything concerning or are you excited about the prospects?
CBBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Not something I'll have to deal with for a while, but I compete in NAGA Nogi where heel hooks are also allowed. In all honesty, I think people are exaggerating how much of a difference it will make. At brown black you're allowed to do most leg locks anyway. If you're already paying attention to those, avoiding heel hooks isn't that big a jump. It's change things of course, but it's not the major change like removing leg grabs from Judo was. I'm betting most people have been rolling with them since forever anyway.
DFBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Not something I'll have to deal with for a while, but I compete in NAGA Nogi where heel hooks are also allowed. In all honesty, I think people are exaggerating how much of a difference it will make. At brown black you're allowed to do most leg locks anyway. If you're already paying attention to those, avoiding heel hooks isn't that big a jump. It's change things of course, but it's not the major change like removing leg grabs from Judo was. I'm betting most people have been rolling with them since forever anyway.
Not sure I agree. I did Sambo many moons ago, and since purple have been training leg-lock theory. Heel hooks are definitely an advantage over those who have not trained it. The entries, the nature of the game (guard pass vs. snatch a leg), and the defense is super important if guys are going to compete against other guys who haven't been training such things. You might be right at blue belt. Perhaps it's not as time pressing. That said, I think since the IBJJF is going to allow them, all schools should probably start teaching underbelts proper defense, and the mechanics of it so they know how to escape and not get hurt. It's good to have the whole gym on the same page so training cross-pollinates more amongst the ranks vs. holding people off too long. Thoughts?
Edited 5 year(s) ago
CBBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I'm not disagreeing with you. I just think people are exaggerating the effect it will have. Reading people online, you'd think open guard is going to disappear off the face of the earth and everyone's going to be hiding their feet all the time instead. There will definitely be changes to people's game, but I think it's more akin the the change you have when you go from purple (No toe holds and knee bars) to brown (with toe holds and knee bars).
Also, like I said before, I think most people are already training most of this anyway. My Nogi game is very leg locks focused and my group do a lot of heel hooks in Nogi. It's not like no one has been doing heel hooks until now.
Also, like I said before, I think most people are already training most of this anyway. My Nogi game is very leg locks focused and my group do a lot of heel hooks in Nogi. It's not like no one has been doing heel hooks until now.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
You win IBJJF Worlds Black Belt adult division you are the BJJ World Champion. You win the IBJJF No-Gi Worlds Black Belt Adult Division you are still the BJJ World Champion. TO be the best Submission Grappler in the World....gotta win ADCC.
The winner of the IBJJF World No-Gi Championships at Black Belt hasn't ever meant the same thing as winning ADCC. The IBJJF adding heel hooks is simply them trying to capture the magnitude of that title for themselves. Which they won't because a HUGE portion of the grappling world hates them anyway.
The winner of the IBJJF World No-Gi Championships at Black Belt hasn't ever meant the same thing as winning ADCC. The IBJJF adding heel hooks is simply them trying to capture the magnitude of that title for themselves. Which they won't because a HUGE portion of the grappling world hates them anyway.
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Don't allow someone to control your knee in the same way you wouldn't allow someone to control your elbow.
It's really more of just following a simple concept then needing to know a million entries or techniques.
Quick question to ask yourself if your worried about heel hooks.
Do you often get knee barred out of no where wondering what the hell happened? Then you may be in trouble.
It's really more of just following a simple concept then needing to know a million entries or techniques.
Quick question to ask yourself if your worried about heel hooks.
Do you often get knee barred out of no where wondering what the hell happened? Then you may be in trouble.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
DFBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Don't allow someone to control your knee in the same way you wouldn't allow someone to control your elbow. It's really more of just following a simple concept then needing to know a million entries or techniques. Quick question to ask yourself if your worried about heel hooks. Do you often get knee barred out of no where wondering what the hell happened? Then you may be in trouble.
I train gi at Grace Barra (started at white belt with GB) and no gi at the Darkside here in Houston (Victor Pozas is a Dean Lister black belt). I'd agree with you except having watch upper belts get trashed by the leg game pretty consistently because they don't train it, attack it, drill it, and can't counter it, makes me pretty curious how it will pan out. I think IBJJF focused schools need to begin incorporating leg locks early on. I'm not personally worried about heel hooks. To be honest, it's an advantage for me since I've been training them intensively for a while now. I'm curious how others are processing it. I do think folks will catch up though. It will be a gap for a little while.
SCBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
it is what it is,.. they are trying to compete with something that cant really compete with and people being upset that they cant do the same in nogi that they can in gi is just a bunch of people complaining. Once people start getting mojor injuries from heel hooks in gi because of other extra constraint the twisting of the gi may have on the knee it will change again..
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I expect IBJJF approved knee braces, crutches, ortho surgeries and rehab clinics are in the pipeline
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Is it all already confimed? Are the exact rulesets out?
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Is it all already confimed? Are the exact rulesets out?
This is only for No-gi I believe.
CBBrown beltVerified
CBBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Is it all already confimed? Are the exact rulesets out?
It was confirmed at Pans. https://www.bjjee.com/bjj[...]rom%202021.
No new rule book yet. When you click on the link you get a 404 message. Guessing they're still updating it.
No new rule book yet. When you click on the link you get a 404 message. Guessing they're still updating it.
TPBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Is it all already confimed? Are the exact rulesets out?
Yes, confirmed.
Previous discussion: https://beltchecker.com/f[...]f5b12883a2
What might be of interest to Estonians as well, I took the official Finnish BJJ Federation referee course a few weeks ago, and they confirmed that the new rules will be implemented to their competitions too in the beginning of 2021. (So in practice No-Gi Finnish Open/Nationals elite divisions are affected.)
In the referee course, the new rule were discussed very briefly... when reaping and heelhooks are allowed, one can do pretty much anything with the feet. :D The cursed reaping rule and the potential DQ from there is way more difficult to referee.
Previous discussion: https://beltchecker.com/f[...]f5b12883a2
What might be of interest to Estonians as well, I took the official Finnish BJJ Federation referee course a few weeks ago, and they confirmed that the new rules will be implemented to their competitions too in the beginning of 2021. (So in practice No-Gi Finnish Open/Nationals elite divisions are affected.)
In the referee course, the new rule were discussed very briefly... when reaping and heelhooks are allowed, one can do pretty much anything with the feet. :D The cursed reaping rule and the potential DQ from there is way more difficult to referee.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
But does it affect black belt only? What about specifics for the lower belts? No heel hooks but what about reaps etc?
CBBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
But does it affect black belt only? What about specifics for the lower belts? No heel hooks but what about reaps etc?
Only black belts in Nogi. Same rules as before for the lower belts. As I understand, reaping will also be allowed in Nogi.
JJBlack beltVerified
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Only black belts in Nogi. Same rules as before for the lower belts. As I understand, reaping will also be allowed in Nogi.
So yes, reaps for all belts?
TPBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
So yes, reaps for all belts?
Unfortunately no.
Reaps and heelhooks for BROWN and BLACK belt only & in NO-GI only.
Reaps and heelhooks for BROWN and BLACK belt only & in NO-GI only.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Unfortunately no. Reaps and heelhooks for BROWN and BLACK belt only & in NO-GI only.
What a load of BS :(
SCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Unfortunately no. Reaps and heelhooks for BROWN and BLACK belt only & in NO-GI only.
It's progress in the right direction since it at least opens up some positions at the higher levels that were previously forbidden =]
DBBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
UWW already allows reaping and we don't seem to have people's knees exploding left and right in those competitions. I'm hoping this gives way to at least allowing reaping and turning to the inside for leg log finishes in the gi even if heel hooks remain off the menu in the gi.
I'm not registered with the IBJJF, but we had one guy visit our club who literally yelled "REAP! REAP!" when a blue belt caught him in a straight ankle lock and went to the leg knot to secure the position to finish. The sooner the IBJJF drops the nonsense that these positions are inherently dangerous (and that people need to not just try to hulk out of them) the better.
I'm not registered with the IBJJF, but we had one guy visit our club who literally yelled "REAP! REAP!" when a blue belt caught him in a straight ankle lock and went to the leg knot to secure the position to finish. The sooner the IBJJF drops the nonsense that these positions are inherently dangerous (and that people need to not just try to hulk out of them) the better.
TPBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Yeah. When they see that there world won't end next year (OR WILL IT..?) after these changes are implemented, hopefully it's reaping allowed next to brown & blacks in the gi, then to everybody in no-gi, then.....
DFBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I expect IBJJF approved knee braces, crutches, ortho surgeries and rehab clinics are in the pipeline
Nah, folks just gotta tap like they do to anything else.
DFBlack beltVerified
DFBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Only black belts in Nogi. Same rules as before for the lower belts. As I understand, reaping will also be allowed in Nogi.
Interesting, i thought reaps were allow at brown also in no gi.
DFBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
UWW already allows reaping and we don't seem to have people's knees exploding left and right in those competitions. I'm hoping this gives way to at least allowing reaping and turning to the inside for leg log finishes in the gi even if heel hooks remain off the menu in the gi. I'm not registered with the IBJJF, but we had one guy visit our club who literally yelled 'REAP! REAP!' when a blue belt caught him in a straight ankle lock and went to the leg knot to secure the position to finish. The sooner the IBJJF drops the nonsense that these positions are inherently dangerous (and that people need to not just try to hulk out of them) the better.
Could not agree more!
CBBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Interesting point I think is being overlooked here is the reaping. Over all, just allowing heelhooks isn't that big a deal. But allowing reaping opens up a lot of different control positions that you wouldn't have otherwise. Even the recent video from Gordon Ryan on the matter, he also pointed out Heelhooks aren't that different and most of the big differences he mentioned we're the control positions.
BNPurple beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
In all honesty, I think people are exaggerating how much of a difference it will make. At brown black you're allowed to do most leg locks anyway.
Disagree with this. It's not about the difference between heelhook and foot locks, it's the adjustment to the entire guard/leglock meta.
A number of escapes work because the best counter happens to be an illegal heelhook/reap. That is now fundamentally altered. Additional, control positions change, and stall positions like 50/50 will become much more aggressive
A number of escapes work because the best counter happens to be an illegal heelhook/reap. That is now fundamentally altered. Additional, control positions change, and stall positions like 50/50 will become much more aggressive
BBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I am excited for the rule changes. I also wonder if this will eventually lead to allowing other leglocks such as Kneebars and toeholds sooner, perhaps at purple belt.
