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Black belt degrees are bullshit
6 year(s) ago • 9727 views • 90 replies
DTBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I agree specially since they keep changing the rules on the number of years for the degrees.
ALBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I always took it that there was a sort of unspoken "standard" to reach black belt in BJJ, based on performance. Not necessarily that you can kill everyone else on the mats, but that you understand how to move your body and either move or move around your opponents body. Frames, leverage, momentum, various principles and concepts, and of course the large repertoire of techniques one acculumates over the years.... all these make for a very very formidable adversary against someone with little or no Jiu Jitsu at all.
For black belt degrees, I think time in rank is both traditional AND appropriate, providing there is confirmation that the person is ACTIVELY teaching and/or competing throughout that entire time. I don't think competitions alone are a good standard - it's a thing not everyone can commit to regularly (due to families and careers), but it doesn't mean they aren't honing their craft and improving their knowledgle. I personally have zero use for the politics of the IBJJF, they are but "one" suggested guideline on the way to run things; there are others! But the traditional time in rank for active teachers/competitors really does make sense to me.
For black belt degrees, I think time in rank is both traditional AND appropriate, providing there is confirmation that the person is ACTIVELY teaching and/or competing throughout that entire time. I don't think competitions alone are a good standard - it's a thing not everyone can commit to regularly (due to families and careers), but it doesn't mean they aren't honing their craft and improving their knowledgle. I personally have zero use for the politics of the IBJJF, they are but "one" suggested guideline on the way to run things; there are others! But the traditional time in rank for active teachers/competitors really does make sense to me.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I'm of the opinion that if noone really cared about belts and stripes this site would not even exist. Just my 2cents
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
R. David Gonzalez,
the fact the site is well populated by Jiu-Jitsu and grappling coaches makes the forums an enjoyable place to be.
The fact that the forums so far have remained fairly civil
is a pleasant change from all the trash talking.
Don't get me wrong, many of us also have black belts in trash talk, and it can be useful to razzle dazzle ticket sales for events, etc.
But, it's nice to see everybody, including myself, showing we can also turn the razzle dazzle and trash talk off, and that is not the limits of our repertoire.
So, I find the forums and opportunity to connect with people in a civil environment to be a value that far exceeds the rank functions.
the fact the site is well populated by Jiu-Jitsu and grappling coaches makes the forums an enjoyable place to be.
The fact that the forums so far have remained fairly civil
is a pleasant change from all the trash talking.
Don't get me wrong, many of us also have black belts in trash talk, and it can be useful to razzle dazzle ticket sales for events, etc.
But, it's nice to see everybody, including myself, showing we can also turn the razzle dazzle and trash talk off, and that is not the limits of our repertoire.
So, I find the forums and opportunity to connect with people in a civil environment to be a value that far exceeds the rank functions.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
For truth in advertising, those of you who may interact with me on other forums where trash talking is common know that I also trash talk on those forums.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
So, I find the forums and opportunity to connect with people in a civil environment to be a value that far exceeds the rank functions.
The rank function on here is why most signed on I am sure. The forums is why most will continue to check in regularly. At least for me it is.
Mostly I like seeing all the photos folks are posting on their profiles and seeing the growth of Jiu jitsu throughout the world.
I also enjoy the forums on here. The other well known forums (of which I am a lurker) are too anonymous and the trash talking is on another level.
The civility on here is great and I hope it stays that way.
Cheers
Mostly I like seeing all the photos folks are posting on their profiles and seeing the growth of Jiu jitsu throughout the world.
I also enjoy the forums on here. The other well known forums (of which I am a lurker) are too anonymous and the trash talking is on another level.
The civility on here is great and I hope it stays that way.
Cheers
ARBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
The thing I like best about the forums is seeing how many people hate everything about jiu jitsu.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Anthony, what is not to hate?
Everytime I shake hands to say hello to someone in Jiu-Jitsu,
they almost immediately attack me, try to jump on my back, choke me, or twist my limbs in odd positions.
And then there are those strange people that keep saying "oss" or "osu".
Anyway, if they are wearing their pajamas, don't shake hands with them, or bump their knuckles if they hold them out, because it means they are about to attack you.
Everytime I shake hands to say hello to someone in Jiu-Jitsu,
they almost immediately attack me, try to jump on my back, choke me, or twist my limbs in odd positions.
And then there are those strange people that keep saying "oss" or "osu".
Anyway, if they are wearing their pajamas, don't shake hands with them, or bump their knuckles if they hold them out, because it means they are about to attack you.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
they almost immediately attack me
Lol! I got randomly wrist locked by an old lady at the grocery store for wearing a I train UFC shirt. ;-)
HWBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
My coach just taught me it was a marker of time more than anything. I like being able to look at a belt and tell what BJJ generation they’re from. Other than that doesn’t use it to lord over anyone, backing up your black belt is on you.
![Slideyfoot [jun]](userimg/5e25cf311adfd.jpg){kind=small}
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Discuss! ;)
Yep, I agree with Christian's post at the top. Same reason I don't bother using stripes on belts: the criteria ranges widely to the extent that it becomes effectively meaningless. With black belt degrees it is a little more consistent, as a lot of people follow IBJJF "3 years per stripe" rule, but plenty of orgs don't care (unsurprisingly, given that the IBJJF is just a company that masquerades as a governing body, rather than ACTUALLY being a governing body).
Saying all that, I don't think it is a bad idea to have some kind of distinguishing marker on a black belt, even if it is purely time served. Reason being, unlike other belts, you are expecting to have a black belt for decades, so there is a way bigger variation between black belts compared to any other belt.
Saying all that, I don't think it is a bad idea to have some kind of distinguishing marker on a black belt, even if it is purely time served. Reason being, unlike other belts, you are expecting to have a black belt for decades, so there is a way bigger variation between black belts compared to any other belt.
MMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerifiedCanada 🇨🇦
6 year(s) ago
When you can get a coloured belt in “no touch” celebrity BJJ, why can’t I have many pieces of tape on my black belt ;)
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
When you can get a coloured belt in “no touch” celebrity BJJ...
To be fair I haven't seen too many of those. Most celebrities I've heard of who do BJJ actually seem to roll as well... and some seem pretty legit - maybe not up to higher standards but they can still grapple. OR did you have specific examples in mind?
Off the top of my head I can recall Ed O'Neill, Maynard Keenan and Ashton Kutcher (he's the most recent and probably currently most BJJ-famous).
And those guys are pretty legit or so I hear!
Off the top of my head I can recall Ed O'Neill, Maynard Keenan and Ashton Kutcher (he's the most recent and probably currently most BJJ-famous).
And those guys are pretty legit or so I hear!
Edited 6 year(s) ago
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
It is disappointing that some people love to hate on anybody that has a bit of success.
I'd tell people to worry about their own training,
But I am more inclined to tell people not to worry about Jiu-Jitsu at all.
My bias as a Leukemia survivor.
Grave men, who see with blinding sight,
Do not go gentle into that dark night,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
...........
Don't sweat the small things.
I'd tell people to worry about their own training,
But I am more inclined to tell people not to worry about Jiu-Jitsu at all.
My bias as a Leukemia survivor.
Grave men, who see with blinding sight,
Do not go gentle into that dark night,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
...........
Don't sweat the small things.
ILBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Unlike other martial arts, BJJ actually measures ability.
Does it matters that Roger Gracie have no stripes on his belt? or how are the 5 stripe black belt reflects his inability to submit people?
I believe that once you've reached your black belt you should stop caring for degrees (if you cared for them to begin with)
HOWEVER.... I also believe that the hardest skills to master are perseverance, persistence and determination... ESPECIALLY in an ego-killing-atmosphere such as in jiu jitsu.
So you should get merit for the hardest skills to won.
As one of my former professors once said, black belt strips are given as a nod of respect to the time you put (and keep putting) on the mat.
Does it matters that Roger Gracie have no stripes on his belt? or how are the 5 stripe black belt reflects his inability to submit people?
I believe that once you've reached your black belt you should stop caring for degrees (if you cared for them to begin with)
HOWEVER.... I also believe that the hardest skills to master are perseverance, persistence and determination... ESPECIALLY in an ego-killing-atmosphere such as in jiu jitsu.
So you should get merit for the hardest skills to won.
As one of my former professors once said, black belt strips are given as a nod of respect to the time you put (and keep putting) on the mat.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I wanted to clarify that I meant that O'Neill, Keenan and Kutcher can grapple! So they are defo not "bought belts".
Now Bolsonaro getting an honorary belt... pheew that's another story...
Now Bolsonaro getting an honorary belt... pheew that's another story...
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Jorgen,
Yeah, "honorary" belts to politicians is a weird thing.
I guess, since we know they are "honorary" they are not real belts?
Do they confer privilege of any sort?
LOL, we know they will not help in a roll.
My own belt never does,
as a matter of fact, my belt often betrays me as people grab it to sweep me or throw me with.
Although, I do have a magic belt that will automatically fall off just when I am getting really tired in a roll,
and make itself impossible to retie quickly so as to give me a bit of a rest, when I am grappling the 20 something year olds.
Shhhh....don't tell anyone about my magic belt.
You may have seen it used before by many experienced black belts in tournament,
who, when tired, cannot retie this magic belt quickly.
Yeah, "honorary" belts to politicians is a weird thing.
I guess, since we know they are "honorary" they are not real belts?
Do they confer privilege of any sort?
LOL, we know they will not help in a roll.
My own belt never does,
as a matter of fact, my belt often betrays me as people grab it to sweep me or throw me with.
Although, I do have a magic belt that will automatically fall off just when I am getting really tired in a roll,
and make itself impossible to retie quickly so as to give me a bit of a rest, when I am grappling the 20 something year olds.
Shhhh....don't tell anyone about my magic belt.
You may have seen it used before by many experienced black belts in tournament,
who, when tired, cannot retie this magic belt quickly.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
TPBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Btw our gym doesn't do stripes except for kids & black belts. I missed the kids belts starting in my 30s, so I am reealllly looking forward to getting my 1st ever stripe – on my black when that day comes! On my current pace it shouldn't take more than a little over 6 years from now. I have a lot of tape strips on fingers most of the time though.
TSBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
My instructor, Cassio Werneck, to my knowledge has never officially promoted any of his black belts up to any degrees. I have been an active competitor and instructor since getting my black belt over nine years ago and have never been promoted or asked him to promote me. I believe if I asked him to sign off on ibjjf paperwork for my stripes he probably would, and I think some of his other students may have done that. I would like to get officially recognized as a ibjjf second degree one day just so I can sign off paperwork for my students without having to go to Cassio every time, but I have not been consistent with paying my ibjjf dues and they only recognize my as a no stripe black belt...
KKBrown beltPending
6 year(s) ago
Colored belts makes kind of sense as they are widely based on competition performance (or at least rough comparison with competitors), but black belt degrees... - Designed purely to keep the old guys on top of the hierarchy so they can keep their promoting-power (/affiliation). - Based solely on time; even traditional martial arts have SOME sort of test involved like a kata or dodging a sword. In BJJ you just have to stay alive. - People have all kinds of circus-colored belts, even some with GOLD on - this worse than traditional martial arts that we cool BJJ practitioners love to bash. Discuss! ;)
In most jud orginizations time and rank can be over ridden or superceeded by sucess in competition, promoting the sport of judo (Refereing ect) . I wonder if a similar system would work for BJJ. The problem and great thing about BJJ is how uncentrealized it is, so that would make it a hard hurdle.
KJPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
'I wouldn’t mind if there was a standard for minimum required competition matches / results in order to get a new degree.' I wouldn't mind that either. LOL
Some people don't have the desire to compete. Doesn't mean they don't have the skills to teach. New generations will always surpass the old in terms of "black belt level" prowess. That's just the sport evolving. A new gen purple/brown belt SHOULD be able to give an old gen. a run for his money. Not a negative thing imo.
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
At my age you kind of like a reward for staying alive..
That said not a fan of belts at all but I came from styles that didn't have them.. I always thought it was what you could do on the mats imparting knowledge and performance wise..
That said not a fan of belts at all but I came from styles that didn't have them.. I always thought it was what you could do on the mats imparting knowledge and performance wise..
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
At my age you kind of like a reward for staying alive.. That said not a fan of belts at all but I came from styles that didn't have them.. I always thought it was what you could do on the mats imparting knowledge and performance wise..
Maybe the belt system isn't so much for recognition of performance or ability but serves as a warning to the ignorant? :D
VHBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
ok guys im gonna explain the protip. look at the guys stripes on his Blackbelt, if there are 2 or 3 or even 4 AND the guy still does not look old and rolls with everyone chances are its a fuckin machine. if the guy looks old or has more than 4 stripes (usually then they are old anyway) dont expect him to kill you in a roll but you can ask him technical questions and will very likely get some good answers. thats basically all there is to it in over 95% of the cases. there are exceptions tho but very rare... as for earning degrees please focus on training instead and just forget them thats all i would say about it... oh and show at least a little respect when they got like 5+ stripes they are the elders yknow you wouldnt disrespect someones grandparents would you ?
AHBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
ok guys im gonna explain the protip. look at the guys stripes on his Blackbelt, if there are 2 or 3 or even 4 AND the guy still does not look old and rolls with everyone chances are its a fuckin machine. if the guy looks old or has more than 4 stripes (usually then they are old anyway) dont expect him to kill you in a roll but you can ask him technical questions and will very likely get some good answers. thats basically all there is to it in over 95% of the cases. there are exceptions tho but very rare... as for earning degrees please focus on training instead and just forget them thats all i would say about it... oh and show at least a little respect when they got like 5+ stripes they are the elders yknow you wouldnt disrespect someones grandparents would you ?
I generally agree,
Except for when I visited Mario Sperry's place in Miami. 6 stripe black. He's mid 50s now, gave me a ton of good technical advice, and then he beat my ass like I was nothing more than a small child to him. I was absolutely helpless.
Except for when I visited Mario Sperry's place in Miami. 6 stripe black. He's mid 50s now, gave me a ton of good technical advice, and then he beat my ass like I was nothing more than a small child to him. I was absolutely helpless.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
A thought about Beltchecker just to consider - I think as "time served" stripes don't trigger re-voting but instructor confirmed ones do (did I get this wrong?) I actually think I will fill in all my stripes as "time served" even though I hope and would like that they are going to be acknowledged by someone I consider "elder" :)
I have a nice set of votes with nice comments and while I don't care about points that much (do admit, do care a little) I know a lot wouldn't revote and I wouldn't want to lose the comments for my own sake and even re-confirming deletes the comments under a vote.
I have a nice set of votes with nice comments and while I don't care about points that much (do admit, do care a little) I know a lot wouldn't revote and I wouldn't want to lose the comments for my own sake and even re-confirming deletes the comments under a vote.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
A thought about Beltchecker just to consider - I think as 'time served' stripes don't trigger re-voting but instructor confirmed ones do (did I get this wrong?) I actually think I will fill in all my stripes as 'time served' even though I hope and would like that they are going to be acknowledged by someone I consider 'elder' :) I have a nice set of votes with nice comments and while I don't care about points that much (do admit, do care a little) I know a lot wouldn't revote and I wouldn't want to lose the comments for my own sake and even re-confirming deletes the comments under a vote.
You are correct.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Since you are already here - what about 'time served' plus a photo?
It's a technical reason why it's not possible to add a photo to the time served belt records at the moment. Perhaps at some point in the future :)
RMBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I agree that degrees past black belt are a bit silly. Especially when you start getting into red belts or coral belts or whatever else. It just seems rather pointless. If I get a PhD in whatever subject, should I keep getting extra degrees once I have had it for a while?
As for honoring great competitors or instructors, those folks have generally already distinguished themselves without needing any other fancy belts. I have no idea what degree belt Marcelo is, but I know all the championships he has won.
As for honoring great competitors or instructors, those folks have generally already distinguished themselves without needing any other fancy belts. I have no idea what degree belt Marcelo is, but I know all the championships he has won.
