I actually always liked the simple system with the caveat that it's -active- time either as a coach OR competitor (or both). Then it would be good info - okay this person is a fresh BB and this one's been one for 10 years (and that kinda means they have been in the sport for long time) which actually is pretty well correlated with skill/knowledge.

Sure, but then we should also just have time based colored belt ranks if that’s enough to determine skill/knowledge.

First part of belt system is based on performance (which we all like to advertise about) but then the second part is based on time, no matter if you get worse at the sport.

"Sure, but then we should also just have time based colored belt ranks if that’s enough to determine skill/knowledge."

There kind of is already. A minimum time at rank as per the IBJJF.

I do agree, at the black belt level, some knowledge/performance based testing should be required. I believe there are a couple of associations out there that do that. Can't think of them off the top of my head.

I wouldn’t mind if there was a standard for minimum required competition matches / results in order to get a new degree.

"I wouldn’t mind if there was a standard for minimum required competition matches / results in order to get a new degree."

I wouldn't mind that either. LOL

Makes sense but nobody really cares about colored belts IMO. I dont have any issue with time based stripes for black pending you are still relevant to some degree and not up to the discretion of one diety lol

No. It's a way of your teacher to say: this person has grown into his/her role as a teacher and instructor, and I still vouch for him/her.

Daniel >> This kind of makes sense but on the other hand, IBJJF will promote people to black belt degrees online without a signature from a professor, so how do we explain that?

ITs not that valuable, but i like the idea of time-based stripes so you can see how long somebody has been a black belt. its just that the other graduation options are worse and are politic heavy. Or none, but hey, we are big kids, we need some form of achievement, even if its just a lousy piece of tape on your lousy piece of fabric to keep your extremely relevant impression of a 19th century kimono closed.

I don't know, I completely agree. When I found out around purple belt that black belt degrees were purely time-in-grade, it was a pretty severe anti-climax. I still find it extremely disappointing. It really makes those degrees seem severely less important for me.

A minimum time-in-grade is fine, to some extent, though I find the Judo black belt system in place in USA Judo far more sensical, for example. There's a minimum, but based on competition points that minimum keeps shrinking. That way our Olympians are (properly) more like 5th and 6th degree black belts by 30, which otherwise usually is going to take you into your 50's or 60's to attain.

Graugart: Because the ibjjf is essentially a pyramid scheme.

I did not get my degree registered with them, and do not intend to.

I find the continued trust of my mentors more valueable.

I agreed, mas massacred once I brought this subject on Reddit, but I strongly believe you will eventually get it if you just stick around, thus being more a time tracker than a skill tracker. But I think that of all belts lol. Not all color belts compete.

Christian: if you think the BB degrees are bullshit, why do they get more vote points in your own system? :)

Conversely, I think stripes on adult colored belts make little sense. It's like this student is not mature enough for the next belt yet, but it's nice to give him something, and he likes getting it... what's the point? (Perhaps unless it's a huge-ass school where it's hard to keep track who's due a promotion soon.) A progress within a rank should be detectable by other methods. (A different story for kids, who might need that kind of rewards for motivation.)

Eventually people who stick with the art will get to black belt, and the degrees tell how long you've been one, which is kinda cool. I have thought there's a requirement of being "an active" black belt in order to get your grau after the needed time, which should mean active instructor or competitor, but apparently this is not well monitored and the degrees can be earned just by not dying/quitting. Also makes sense that a fresh BB can't right away start promoting BBs of their own, for which the 2-degree requirement is I guess a decent solution.

degrees should be reserved for Academy owners and Black Belts who teach full time. But that's just my opinion.

I think degrees should awarded for those who keep contributing to BJJ in some way. Teaching, training, competing ...

The difficulty with that, of course, is to define "contributing". What if you own an academy but doesn't really train anymore?

IBJJF will promote your black belt degrees online for money, no need to do anything but sit on your butt for x number of years and you can buy a pretty certificate.

I disagree with the promoting based solely on time. it should be part of the requirement but not the sole requirement.

Agreed. All degrees are kind of bullshit, but yeah at black belt it really doesn't make sense. It's about control.

my favorite promotion was the 4 stripes on my blue belt after being a blue for 10years, all my other promotions felt very political as i was an outsider getting promoted and not part of teh club or affiliation. but yeah im sure when ever i get around to getting a black belt i'll probably never care about ever adding a stripe to it.

"What if you own an academy but doesn't really train anymore? "

Well, you are contributing somehow.

It's kinda of subjective, but still better than the BS that is the time based thing.

I mean, think how dumb this is, lol. If I never do anything BJJ related ever again and just survive, I'll eventually be a red belt lol

All rank belts, especially for adults, are silly.
Discuss that...

I'd put on whatever was given to me, at least for the "official" belt. IBJJF can pound sand. There's a good chance my daily black belt will always be without degrees. I'd rather people judge me on what I can communicate rather than what they see.

ok guys im gonna explain the protip. look at the guys stripes on his Blackbelt, if there are 2 or 3 or even 4 AND the guy still does not look old and rolls with everyone chances are its a fuckin machine.

if the guy looks old or has more than 4 stripes (usually then they are old anyway) dont expect him to kill you in a roll but you can ask him technical questions and will very likely get some good answers.

thats basically all there is to it in over 95% of the cases. there are exceptions tho but very rare...

as for earning degrees please focus on training instead and just forget them thats all i would say about it...

oh and show at least a little respect when they got like 5+ stripes they are the elders yknow you wouldnt disrespect someones grandparents would you ?

In my opinion we go through three different phases

Youth:
As a youth you can go from white to green belt. Personally I think those promotions should be based on mat time (lessons attended) and not on skill. In this phase it’s a race or competition against yourself. Each new belt you should be better than you were in your previous belt. But not necessarily better than other kids in similar belts.

Adult white to black:
As an adult I think each belt colour should be awarded based on skill. Both skill in techniques as skill in competition. If you know the right amount of moves and know how to apply them. Your professor / coach will promote you.

Mastery:
Once you’re a black belt you should know most of the moves and you have demonstrated you can roll. Sure there are always extra techniques you can learn, but most of them you’ll know. From this point on there is something else important called life experience. The older you get, the more you can place things in perspective. Combine life experience with you’re black belt mastery and you might not be able to beat a 20 years younger black (or brown) belt, but you could sure teach him a thing or two. That’s where the time based degrees come in. I am perfectly fine with them.

Is it a perfect system. Probably not, but to me it does make sense.

Depends on the school and how they do it really. IBJJF in my opinion is just a money grab, with politics everywhere! My old school i see people i came up with, who should have degrees if it's just time in, but they do not. I know with us, i'm a five day a week, still compete and post videos, and communicate with my professor where i think my students are at (for BB or degrees), and we do test them for these. This is done obviously by rolling and seeing where they are at with escapes, planning a move ahead, etc.

So food for thought... Usually I like to play devils advocate.. Competition matches should not equate promotion. Because if so you could sign up and lose every match or win a bunch of shitty ones just to get striped up?

For those of us that have been a black belt a while, are you as knowledgeable now as you were when you first received it?

There's so much difference between everyone's athleticism, talent, body types, and energy levels (think: guys who do construction 12 hrs / day vs a guy at a desk for 8), that "skill" is relative and doesn't really seem a great overall indicator of stripes on a belt either. Right now, it seems like stripes are intended to demarcate your own journey, not in comparison for others - so it doesn't make sense for competition to play a factor in belting / striping.

I don't think "time in grade" is a good marker for promotions either. Coming to class 12x / week is very different then making 2x / week. That's why colored belts and adult divisions in ibjjf are so fucked up. You've got kids who just hit 18, but have been training a decade against adults who have been training 2 years. Absurd system.

The best indicator is obviously mat time. Running 12 sessions a week at 2 hours a session is 1248 hours / year. Most purple belts have around 1,000 hours of mat time. If purple belt is the halfway point (it is under IBJJF), then a fresh black belt should have between 2000 and 2500 hours of mat time. Beyond that, if you want degrees, you can just add increasingly higher chunks of mat time for each degree, but I don't like black belt degrees personally, and probably won't ever seek them.

Of course, not all mat time is equal either, but that's neither here nor there. Promotion is weird, and I'd be happy with no belts too. Lol.

This is definitely something that I feel Judo does better (though unfortunately politics still come into play in the higher ranks). My history in Judo means that it is extremely unlikely I will ever reach higher than 5th dan, no matter how long I stick with it. But that's okay - I'm no world class competitor, or pioneer in technique or what have you, so why should I ever obtain the same rank as those who are, just because I get older?