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Rufino Dos Santos
5 year(s) ago • 1199 views • 33 replies
BBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Wow!, I had never heard of this story. And people Bow and hang pictures of Helio and Carlos?
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
You might want to elaborate a bit on what you're talking about... :D
DBBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Chadi video: https://www.youtube.com/w[...]osuAZwKY1c
DIDOS video: https://www.youtube.com/w[...]Cai00QBEl4
DIDOS video: https://www.youtube.com/w[...]Cai00QBEl4
BBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Thats it Drew.
BBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
You might want to elaborate a bit on what you're talking about... :D
Christian,
Drew posted the video.
Drew posted the video.
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Wow!, I had never heard of this story. And people Bow and hang pictures of Helio and Carlos?
it's all in marketing, no?
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I have always gotten a kick out of the "history" of BJJ and how suddenly it has been portrayed about honor, and discipline yet the reality is more like street thuggery.. I lover the Valente brothers spin on this incident trying to make it look like 3 guys who jumped a man with weapons were actually the victims
https://submissionwrestli[...]los-gracie
https://submissionwrestli[...]los-gracie
Edited 5 year(s) ago
![Slideyfoot [jun]](userimg/5e25cf311adfd.jpg){kind=small}
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Yeah: I think that with the release of Choque in three volumes a while back, that cleared up a lot of misconceptions that had been floating around the BJJ-o-sphere for decades. The community in general is much much better informed in terms of history than it was even as recently as when I started (2006).
You still have a few people who swallow the extremely made-up history that Rorion promoted (indeed, in Richard Bresler's recent Worth Defending he repeats it, but in a telling sign, he also acknowledges that it's been discredited), but it is getting less common.
You still have a few people who swallow the extremely made-up history that Rorion promoted (indeed, in Richard Bresler's recent Worth Defending he repeats it, but in a telling sign, he also acknowledges that it's been discredited), but it is getting less common.
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
the apples don't fall far from the tree
https://www.bjpenn.com/mm[...]o-almeida/
https://www.bjpenn.com/mm[...]o-almeida/
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Not intending to attack on the Gracie clan but https://en.wikipedia.org/[...]yan_Gracie
"On December 15, 2007 at 7:00am Ryan Gracie was found dead in a jail cell in São Paulo, Brazil. At approximately 1:30am, Gracie had been arrested for stealing and crashing a car and attempting to hijack a motorcycle. The owner of the motorcycle hit Gracie on the head, and he was detained by several cyclists until police arrived."
"On December 15, 2007 at 7:00am Ryan Gracie was found dead in a jail cell in São Paulo, Brazil. At approximately 1:30am, Gracie had been arrested for stealing and crashing a car and attempting to hijack a motorcycle. The owner of the motorcycle hit Gracie on the head, and he was detained by several cyclists until police arrived."
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Yep, I wrote an article on that for Jiu Jitsu Style back in the day. I didn't know him, but Ryan comes across as a horrible human being. It seems his brothers are similar, but slightly better at hiding it (only slightly: Ralph has followed his late younger bro to jail, while Renzo has been chumming it up with Bolsonaro and quoting Himmler on Twitter). Saying that, I haven't heard anything bad about Charles.
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Yep, I wrote an article on that for Jiu Jitsu Style back in the day. I didn't know him, but Ryan comes across as a horrible human being. It seems his brothers are similar, but slightly better at hiding it (only slightly: Ralph has followed his late younger bro to jail, while Renzo has been chumming it up with Bolsonaro and quoting Himmler on Twitter). Saying that, I haven't heard anything bad about Charles.
Online you see their team mates defending their coaches (naturally) but perhaps forget that they are treated nicely in the same way the waiter/waitress treats you nicely cos they are providing a service and depend on your continued custom for their livelihood.
Charles and all the women Gracies seems to be the anomalies.
Charles and all the women Gracies seems to be the anomalies.
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Online you see their team mates defending their coaches (naturally) but perhaps forget that they are treated nicely in the same way the waiter/waitress treats you nicely cos they are providing a service and depend on your continued custom for their livelihood. Charles and all the women Gracies seems to be the anomalies.
Reyson seems like a good guy too, from everything I've read about him. Not to be confused with Reylson, who from all accounts is a scam artist. Or Relson, another completely different guy. Confusingly close names, those three. ;)
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Reyson seems like a good guy too, from everything I've read about him. Not to be confused with Reylson, who from all accounts is a scam artist. Or Relson, another completely different guy. Confusingly close names, those three. ;)
Reyson actually visited Estonia last year, unfortunately I couldn't go... Who is that ReyLson though?
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Reyson actually visited Estonia last year, unfortunately I couldn't go... Who is that ReyLson though?
Good thread on ReyLson here: https://www.mixedmartiala[...]ie:1844525
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Ryan. By all accounts a troubled human being. If you got on his good side, he'd take a bullet for you, If you got on his wrong side, well, it wasn't good..
Reyson. The most non-violent 'peace & love' of all the Gracies. Deep into the diet and spirituality. His son is a professional ballet dancer (!), which is the bravest thing one can do in such an ultra-macho family / culture.
Reylson. Is known to be a shyster, focussing on upper class rotary club clientele, selling them the self-defense myth.
Relson. Is known to be the most evil streetfighter in the fam. Had a love for several substances, and was way out of control, so was at odds with Helio.
Reyson. The most non-violent 'peace & love' of all the Gracies. Deep into the diet and spirituality. His son is a professional ballet dancer (!), which is the bravest thing one can do in such an ultra-macho family / culture.
Reylson. Is known to be a shyster, focussing on upper class rotary club clientele, selling them the self-defense myth.
Relson. Is known to be the most evil streetfighter in the fam. Had a love for several substances, and was way out of control, so was at odds with Helio.
TPBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I have always gotten a kick out of the "history" of BJJ and how suddenly it has been portrayed about honor, and discipline yet the reality is more like street thuggery..
BJJ cleaned up pretty good in the past few decades & when gaining popularity outside Brazil.
I think these days anybody interested in the art's history (outside the official Gracie narrative) probably knows that as recent in the 90s BJJ & its practitioners generally had a bad reputation in Brazil, especially in certain areas were it was big like Rio. Violent thuggery, picking up fights, vigilantism, hate crimes against gays etc. Not something you would necessarily like your kid to train in, for example.
Gordon Ryan has also been vocal about this history, so he's been quoted a lot.
The sport if of course better with all this bullshit, but running a gym while being an asshole bully is historically accurate & true to the roots. :D
I think these days anybody interested in the art's history (outside the official Gracie narrative) probably knows that as recent in the 90s BJJ & its practitioners generally had a bad reputation in Brazil, especially in certain areas were it was big like Rio. Violent thuggery, picking up fights, vigilantism, hate crimes against gays etc. Not something you would necessarily like your kid to train in, for example.
Gordon Ryan has also been vocal about this history, so he's been quoted a lot.
The sport if of course better with all this bullshit, but running a gym while being an asshole bully is historically accurate & true to the roots. :D
Edited 5 year(s) ago
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
While I think Gordon Ryan's online persona is quite insufferable, I'm sure he's a more likeable bloke in real life.
Also, I appreciate him calling out the brazilian braggadocio with an equal dose of american attitude.
Also, I appreciate him calling out the brazilian braggadocio with an equal dose of american attitude.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
While I think Gordon Ryan's online persona is quite insufferable, I'm sure he's a more likeble bloke in real life. Also, I appreciate him calling out the brazilian braggadocio with an equal dose of american attitude.
When he posted a picture of a homeless person being all whiny and privilege blind that did it for me...
Also one of the replies was hinting at smallness of literal virility and he felt the need to actually describe emphasise his size in the reply...
Would still go to his seminar and gladly train with him given the chance.
Also one of the replies was hinting at smallness of literal virility and he felt the need to actually describe emphasise his size in the reply...
Would still go to his seminar and gladly train with him given the chance.
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
When he posted a picture of a homeless person being all whiny and privilege blind that did it for me... Also one of the replies was hinting at smallness of literal virility and he felt the need to actually describe emphasise his size in the reply... Would still go to his seminar and gladly train with him given the chance.
I wouldn't go to a Gordon Ryan seminar. There are so many great instructors in BJJ, I'd rather give my money to one I like and think is a decent person. Though I don't begrudge other people choosing to buy Gordon Ryan's stuff, as it is apparently good quality so I can understand the appeal. He's not Lloyd Irvin, after all, that's a whole other level of arsehole.
And a little hypocritical of me to refuse to go to Gordon Ryan seminars, when I will happily buy music from people like James Brown, Miles Davis etc, who certainly weren't pleasant guys. Though at least in my head, there's a difference between buying music and going in person to a seminar where you'd interact with the guy. But meh, tenuous. ;)
And a little hypocritical of me to refuse to go to Gordon Ryan seminars, when I will happily buy music from people like James Brown, Miles Davis etc, who certainly weren't pleasant guys. Though at least in my head, there's a difference between buying music and going in person to a seminar where you'd interact with the guy. But meh, tenuous. ;)
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I'd go to a Gordon Ryan seminar if he held it while on death row. Lol
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
The Rufino Dos Santos story is off the charts crazy. Then again, I don't think the whole honour thing existed at that time. That is a new thing in BJJ. At least since I started. There was no talk of honour when I started. It was all smash and little regard for training partners. Neck cranks etc were the order of the day. People would get put to sleep on purpose etc. It was the wild west and my body is a casualty of that time. Now there is bowing, uniform rules and OSS'ing etc. The TMA mentality has made it's way into BJJ and it seems more formal to me now. I'm still just Dave. Hate the whole Professor thing. Oh well, end of rant.
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
The Rufino Dos Santos story is off the charts crazy. Then again, I don't think the whole honour thing existed at that time. That is a new thing in BJJ. At least since I started. There was no talk of honour when I started. It was all smash and little regard for training partners. Neck cranks etc were the order of the day. People would get put to sleep on purpose etc. It was the wild west and my body is a casualty of that time. Now there is bowing, uniform rules and OSS'ing etc. The TMA mentality has made it's way into BJJ and it seems more formal to me now. I'm still just Dave. Hate the whole Professor thing. Oh well, end of rant.
I cringe everytime someone says professor.. I am a street kid from the Bronx who can fight better than you please don't act like I am on a pedestal I belong in an institution not giving life advice.. I have always hated the whole TMA crap
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I love it
SCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I have always gotten a kick out of the 'history' of BJJ and how suddenly it has been portrayed about honor, and discipline yet the reality is more like street thuggery.. I lover the Valente brothers spin on this incident trying to make it look like 3 guys who jumped a man with weapons were actually the victims https://submissionwrestli[...]los-gracie
Yeah, there is a lot of Gracie revisionist history going on
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
The Rufino Dos Santos story is off the charts crazy. Then again, I don't think the whole honour thing existed at that time. That is a new thing in BJJ. At least since I started. There was no talk of honour when I started. It was all smash and little regard for training partners. Neck cranks etc were the order of the day. People would get put to sleep on purpose etc. It was the wild west and my body is a casualty of that time. Now there is bowing, uniform rules and OSS'ing etc. The TMA mentality has made it's way into BJJ and it seems more formal to me now. I'm still just Dave. Hate the whole Professor thing. Oh well, end of rant.
I vividly recall my former instructor telling me (at that time the enforcer) to tap as fast as many times as possible, on trial class and new people! :( Not that I had many occasions to do that... but I didn't agree with that policy as an effective way to promote BJJ and the gym
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I vividly recall my former instructor telling me (at that time the enforcer) to tap as fast as many times as possible, on trial class and new people! :( Not that I had many occasions to do that... but I didn't agree with that policy as an effective way to promote BJJ and the gym
Yeah it is a bad business model for sure.
SCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I vividly recall my former instructor telling me (at that time the enforcer) to tap as fast as many times as possible, on trial class and new people! :( Not that I had many occasions to do that... but I didn't agree with that policy as an effective way to promote BJJ and the gym
I understand wanting to demonstrate that you can control the person so they are aware the art is effective, but that seems excessive
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I vividly recall my former instructor telling me (at that time the enforcer) to tap as fast as many times as possible, on trial class and new people! :( Not that I had many occasions to do that... but I didn't agree with that policy as an effective way to promote BJJ and the gym
Indeed. The tagline for Artemis BJJ is "your friendly BJJ club", which is something I push hard to live up to. I'm very lucky that after seven years, I've now got lots of blue and purple belts who I know I can reliably pair up with a noobie and be confident that beginner will have a lovely, welcoming time.
Occasionally you get somebody who is uncontrolled and risky, which is when I'll pair them up with somebody big and/or strong. Not because I want them to smash the new person into having better control, but because I'll pick the big strong person due to their ability to keep the roll safe. Somebody skilled enough can do the same, if the skill disparity is sufficiently greater than the strength disparity. :)
Ha - and typing this, I just realised the seventh anniversary of my club is next week (27th Jan). I was about to write "after six years", then remembered the date today. :P
Occasionally you get somebody who is uncontrolled and risky, which is when I'll pair them up with somebody big and/or strong. Not because I want them to smash the new person into having better control, but because I'll pick the big strong person due to their ability to keep the roll safe. Somebody skilled enough can do the same, if the skill disparity is sufficiently greater than the strength disparity. :)
Ha - and typing this, I just realised the seventh anniversary of my club is next week (27th Jan). I was about to write "after six years", then remembered the date today. :P
