Rules for main forums
- Be nice
- No advertisement
- No events
- No fundraisers
- No topics asking for votes
- Only posts related to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
To vote or not to vote
3 year(s) ago • 2465 views • 19 replies
MPBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Hi All,
I'm interested in peoples thoughts on the voting process, in particular to the negative vote which deducts points which I have seen on the odd few profiles.
I realise that the voting is a personal thing based on what you see on that individuals profile, but in my opinion I don't think I would negative vote anyone unless I knew 100% that is was a blag/lie.
If while checking members profiles I saw something which ticked the box in my mind then I would give them my vote, however if their profile was lacking I would offer advice in the form of a message or posting on their profile wall as one kind member did for me.
Not negatively point deduct them as for me it then makes it personal and judgemental which surely is not what this platform is about or for.
I guess this may just be my opinion but being in my 50,s this is what I believe and feel.
What are ypur thoughts people.
I'm interested in peoples thoughts on the voting process, in particular to the negative vote which deducts points which I have seen on the odd few profiles.
I realise that the voting is a personal thing based on what you see on that individuals profile, but in my opinion I don't think I would negative vote anyone unless I knew 100% that is was a blag/lie.
If while checking members profiles I saw something which ticked the box in my mind then I would give them my vote, however if their profile was lacking I would offer advice in the form of a message or posting on their profile wall as one kind member did for me.
Not negatively point deduct them as for me it then makes it personal and judgemental which surely is not what this platform is about or for.
I guess this may just be my opinion but being in my 50,s this is what I believe and feel.
What are ypur thoughts people.
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Pretty much the same but you will find that some people don't even bother to respond to your suggestions for filling up the info to build their credibility towards verification and only focusing on the verification process itself, then vanish when they are green lighted. They don't bother to vote for others or reciprocate so this makes you one of the few who put in thought into this concept.
MPBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
If they dont respond then its their loss ultimately, as free advice to improve your profile is like Christmas.
The reason I joined Beltchecker was to be on a platform with like minded people.
Its like one of the other threads I commented on, Together we are stronger.
If we are not willing to help and teach people how to improve then why bother, its just like Bjj you dont smash the newcomer as soon as they come through the door.
The reason I joined Beltchecker was to be on a platform with like minded people.
Its like one of the other threads I commented on, Together we are stronger.
If we are not willing to help and teach people how to improve then why bother, its just like Bjj you dont smash the newcomer as soon as they come through the door.
GYBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I fully agree Marc, I have just seen an example of this. Frankly, the down vote seems a bit of a confusing choice for a lack of evidence. Perhaps a down vote is appropriate for evidence of falsehood.
Frankly, I think the value Beltchecker has is in it's benefits to the community and its inclusivity. I think this downvoting for lack of evidence heads for more towards exclusivity, which we already have too much of in the Jiu Jitsu world.
Frankly, I think the value Beltchecker has is in it's benefits to the community and its inclusivity. I think this downvoting for lack of evidence heads for more towards exclusivity, which we already have too much of in the Jiu Jitsu world.
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I personally feel the verifications are just as much a verification on the evidence being solid, with a clear lineage behind it. As many verify anyways and yet others verify based on others having verified, I think it adds to the value of those who have really put in the effort not only to advice but to actually downvote those who have not. Optimally, it is just short term incitament which is swiftly resolved. It shouldn't be taken personally and the downvoter has actually taken his or her time and usually offer to do so again once you've improved your profile. So you are already on their radar and they have invested in you. Take that in the right way and you will not only get rid of the dispute but also gain their verification points, while someone who have just written short advice on your board or simply just left are more lightly not to come back and give you the verification points.
I think it is in the interest of Beltchecker becoming at least as legit in the publics eye as IBJJF that the disputes are used without as much hesitation as today. I think you should set your standards high and help Beltchecker standards being high too by also using the disputes.
I think it is in the interest of Beltchecker becoming at least as legit in the publics eye as IBJJF that the disputes are used without as much hesitation as today. I think you should set your standards high and help Beltchecker standards being high too by also using the disputes.
Edited 3 year(s) ago
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
If someone is downvoted for having incorrect/missing information on their promotion history, all they literally have to do is to make an update to it and all the downvotes instantly disappear. It’s not like it’s a permanent mark of shame on a profile :D
MPBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Then why would you downvote over offering advice on how to improve the profile. Again this goes down to interpritation , I would rather offer advice via direct message or leaving advice on the individuals wall before downvoting them.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I recently realized that people get sensitive about the downvote. Much more than I would have anticipated. So the advice to explain yourself as you do it is a great idea and I will be sure to follow that advice should I ever do that again.
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Then why would you downvote over offering advice on how to improve the profile.
The number of members who dare to downvote seems to be much less than the number of members who verify based on previous verifications, without really putting any effort into checking up evidence or much thought into what a verification means and what tresholds are valuable to uphold in Beltchecker. My impression also is that previous downvotes work as a break for these quite automatic verifications. So in my opinion, the downvotes serve an important purpose and hold a strong signal value. They also make it more difficult to ignore requests to level up the profile to match a higher set of standards on evidence. A hundred ignored advices through private message and you might quite quickly get the verification anyways. One or two public downvotes and you have to make an effort to move forward. Which I believe is how it should be. Not expecting to be verified with incomplete evidence or clear followable lineage connections and getting upset when someone dares to disagree. That would render the whole Beltchecker project quite meaningsless in my opinion. However, there must be enough people with integrity to cast downvotes for it to be normalised and offset the effects of other people reacting negatively and questioning those consistently casting downvotes according to the standards and expectations they have decided on.
For those who want to join an internet community with less rigorous verification processes and the ability to set the belt yourself, there is always https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/. Or Sherdog, where you can earn belts based on number of posts. Tbh, there is more forum activity on both those, so why even bother with Beltchecker?
For those who want to join an internet community with less rigorous verification processes and the ability to set the belt yourself, there is always https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/. Or Sherdog, where you can earn belts based on number of posts. Tbh, there is more forum activity on both those, so why even bother with Beltchecker?
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
For those who want to join an internet community with less rigorous verification processes and the ability to set the belt yourself, there is always https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/. Or Sherdog, where you can earn belts based on number of posts. Tbh, there is more forum activity on both those, so why even bother with Beltchecker?
The verification processes are honestly not that rigorous in here, but rather they adhere to common sense practices. Are you advocating for just letting people set their own ranks with no checks and balances? I'm not sure why that would be that awesome.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
The number of members who dare to downvote seems to be much less than the number of members who verify based on previous verifications, without really putting any effort into checking up evidence or much thought into what a verification means and what tresholds are valuable to uphold in Beltchecker. My impression also is that previous downvotes work as a break for these quite automatic verifications. So in my opinion, the downvotes serve an important purpose and hold a strong signal value. They also make it more difficult to ignore requests to level up the profile to match a higher set of standards on evidence. A hundred ignored advices through private message and you might quite quickly get the verification anyways. One or two public downvotes and you have to make an effort to move forward. Which I believe is how it should be. Not expecting to be verified with incomplete evidence or clear followable lineage connections and getting upset when someone dares to disagree. That would render the whole Beltchecker project quite meaningsless in my opinion. However, there must be enough people with integrity to cast downvotes for it to be normalised and offset the effects of other people reacting negatively and questioning those consistently casting downvotes according to the standards and expectations they have decided on. For those who want to join an internet community with less rigorous verification processes and the ability to set the belt yourself, there is always https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/. Or Sherdog, where you can earn belts based on number of posts. Tbh, there is more forum activity on both those, so why even bother with Beltchecker?
Yeah, I think you're missing the point of this site. This site isn't awarding the belt because of forums posts. This site is a verification site of your ACTUAL belt in BJJ.
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Look... everyone votes on the criteria that they see as important. In the end, with everyone in the bjj community voting in this way, we reach consensus.
Here's how I vote for people:
Positive vote: I actively, regularly search the thousands of registrations on here, searching for people in my area who I know, or others I've met before or who are otherwise generally well-known, and I vote positively for them.
Neutral vote: neutral votes aren't actually a thing, so if someone messages me, or "friends" me, and that person doesn't meet the above criteria, I kindly explain to them how I vote for people. These folks rarely respond.
Negative vote: I only vote this way if someone is an obvious fake, i.e. they are lying about their rank, or... they are one of my students/ friends/training partners who has neglected to update their rank. In the case of the latter, they are obviously sandbagging and should be punished. Haha.
I don't, however, downvote folks who haven't completely filled out their profiles. This is like giving a restaurant a bad review, not based on the quality of their food, but on the accuracy of their menu. I don't think this would be a fair approach.
Here's how I vote for people:
Positive vote: I actively, regularly search the thousands of registrations on here, searching for people in my area who I know, or others I've met before or who are otherwise generally well-known, and I vote positively for them.
Neutral vote: neutral votes aren't actually a thing, so if someone messages me, or "friends" me, and that person doesn't meet the above criteria, I kindly explain to them how I vote for people. These folks rarely respond.
Negative vote: I only vote this way if someone is an obvious fake, i.e. they are lying about their rank, or... they are one of my students/ friends/training partners who has neglected to update their rank. In the case of the latter, they are obviously sandbagging and should be punished. Haha.
I don't, however, downvote folks who haven't completely filled out their profiles. This is like giving a restaurant a bad review, not based on the quality of their food, but on the accuracy of their menu. I don't think this would be a fair approach.
MGPurple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Here’s an example of what earns a downvote from me. This person acknowledges that they were promoted in 2003/04, but input 2020 as their promotion date on their timeline. Another person I downvoted because they have their birthdate (literal day of birth) as the day they started training.
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I've yet to down vote anyone. I look at how much effort they put into their profile and complete the check boxes before deciding whether they have provided sufficient data to support the green light. If not, I leave it and revisit the next time it pops up. I tend to look at brown/black belts more as they tend to be coaching or assisting coaching in some capacity and are more influential in their home gyms to the up and coming members so they need all the support they can get.
From the reactions for being down voted, some folks take it really personally while others quit and delete their profile. Their reactions are everywhere and in between, as if it were a personal attack on their bjj abilities or knowledge but I guess some folks fail to see that they may have overlooked a checkbox here and there so someone decided to 'help' them see it by flagging their profile. Often leaving a note on their profile is overlooked or ignored so downvoting seems to get their attention more effectively.
From the reactions for being down voted, some folks take it really personally while others quit and delete their profile. Their reactions are everywhere and in between, as if it were a personal attack on their bjj abilities or knowledge but I guess some folks fail to see that they may have overlooked a checkbox here and there so someone decided to 'help' them see it by flagging their profile. Often leaving a note on their profile is overlooked or ignored so downvoting seems to get their attention more effectively.
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Yeah, I think you're missing the point of this site. This site isn't awarding the belt because of forums posts. This site is a verification site of your ACTUAL belt in BJJ.
Joemoplata, I dispute your blue belt in irony ;-)
My point is that I don't think it's to the benefit to this site or the BJJ community if the verification process of this site is just another version of getting to set your own belt. The detour of going through peer verification is just a paranthesis if it is generally carried out on routine where everyone are quite quickly verified if there is no obvious evidence that they do not have the belt they claim. I believe it is rather the duty of the person with the profile to provide obvious evidence that they do have the belt they claim, with a lineage to back it up. At least to get my upvote. It is not about distrust but rather a hygiene factor and about being transparent.
If the verification is so important to someone that they feel personally attacked, even though the reason of the downvote is explained, I have really difficult seeing why they wouldn't be willing to put in the effort to upload good evidence. After which there shouldn't be an issue for anyone anymore.
My point is that I don't think it's to the benefit to this site or the BJJ community if the verification process of this site is just another version of getting to set your own belt. The detour of going through peer verification is just a paranthesis if it is generally carried out on routine where everyone are quite quickly verified if there is no obvious evidence that they do not have the belt they claim. I believe it is rather the duty of the person with the profile to provide obvious evidence that they do have the belt they claim, with a lineage to back it up. At least to get my upvote. It is not about distrust but rather a hygiene factor and about being transparent.
If the verification is so important to someone that they feel personally attacked, even though the reason of the downvote is explained, I have really difficult seeing why they wouldn't be willing to put in the effort to upload good evidence. After which there shouldn't be an issue for anyone anymore.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I'm not suggesting that you have to agree with the process. I'm pointing out that this:
"For those who want to join an internet community with less rigorous verification processes and the ability to set the belt yourself, there is always https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/. Or Sherdog, where you can earn belts based on number of posts."
Is not the same thing.
And this:
"Tbh, there is more forum activity on both those, so why even bother with Beltchecker?"
Is funny to me as those aren't places to take serious in any capacity for the BJJ community. Especially Sherdog. The old school InTheGuard and NHBGear people trolled Sherdog and the UG so well that permanent bans were commonplace. And Reddit? LOL! Come on man.....
"For those who want to join an internet community with less rigorous verification processes and the ability to set the belt yourself, there is always https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/. Or Sherdog, where you can earn belts based on number of posts."
Is not the same thing.
And this:
"Tbh, there is more forum activity on both those, so why even bother with Beltchecker?"
Is funny to me as those aren't places to take serious in any capacity for the BJJ community. Especially Sherdog. The old school InTheGuard and NHBGear people trolled Sherdog and the UG so well that permanent bans were commonplace. And Reddit? LOL! Come on man.....
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Joemoplata, I now dispute your stripes on white belt in irony ;-)
To be totally clear - I too prefer quality over quantity on forum activity.
I also prefer quality over speed and ease (or being able to "earn" belts through number of posts :-) on belt verifications.
To be totally clear - I too prefer quality over quantity on forum activity.
I also prefer quality over speed and ease (or being able to "earn" belts through number of posts :-) on belt verifications.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Joemoplata, I now dispute your stripes on white belt in irony ;-) To be totally clear - I too prefer quality over quantity on forum activity. I also prefer quality over speed and ease (or being able to 'earn' belts through number of posts :-) on belt verifications.
Oh man....I concur with your assessment and downvote my irony skills. It's been a long week.
CCBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Hi All, I'm interested in peoples thoughts on the voting process, in particular to the negative vote which deducts points which I have seen on the odd few profiles. I realise that the voting is a personal thing based on what you see on that individuals profile, but in my opinion I don't think I would negative vote anyone unless I knew 100% that is was a blag/lie. If while checking members profiles I saw something which ticked the box in my mind then I would give them my vote, however if their profile was lacking I would offer advice in the form of a message or posting on their profile wall as one kind member did for me. Not negatively point deduct them as for me it then makes it personal and judgemental which surely is not what this platform is about or for. I guess this may just be my opinion but being in my 50,s this is what I believe and feel. What are ypur thoughts people.
Your opinion is educated, wise and balanced, and I really appreciate that. We are not all the same, and there are many people who live on gossip; the thing that makes me think is that they define themselves as men, warriors, Spartans .... really ridiculous. People who don't know me personally have felt in a position to judge me negatively on this community, but worst of all, so have people I've done favors for, demonstrating how empty their sad life without morality and positivity.
MGPurple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Your opinion is educated, wise and balanced, and I really appreciate that. We are not all the same, and there are many people who live on gossip; the thing that makes me think is that they define themselves as men, warriors, Spartans .... really ridiculous. People who don't know me personally have felt in a position to judge me negatively on this community, but worst of all, so have people I've done favors for, demonstrating how empty their sad life without morality and positivity.
I think you won though.
