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Voting to verify ... what exactly?
6 year(s) ago • 596 views • 18 replies
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
The current voting to verify text states:
"Do you know X and trust that the profile information and promotion history provided is correct?"
Going by that, I could verify a bunch of people I don't know close and personal / haven't met at all. And "personally knowing" Is a shady path anyway. So in some sense if I know they're an actual person and e.g. they present an IBJJF cert then the information that they present is TRUE.
However that would make the "community-based aspect" pointless because (barring forgery) you could verify a lot of people if you believe that their certification is real.
On the other hand you have people (including me) stating that they would need actual BJJ-context personal contact with the person, preferably including rolling time. Trying to establish if indeed the belt that they are verifying is "real". Which is all cool but then begs the question that WHAT are we actually assessing there and we know that peoples "belt-standards" are very varied and subjective and context can go missing. But what to do when I do not agree with someone's belt level?
"Information provided in profile is correct and presented ranks (subjectively) well-deserved?"
(the question should act as a foremost guide)
Fair enough, verifying a blackbelt takes ca 10 of those subjective standards together and I guess that is better than just one :)
"Do you know X and trust that the profile information and promotion history provided is correct?"
Going by that, I could verify a bunch of people I don't know close and personal / haven't met at all. And "personally knowing" Is a shady path anyway. So in some sense if I know they're an actual person and e.g. they present an IBJJF cert then the information that they present is TRUE.
However that would make the "community-based aspect" pointless because (barring forgery) you could verify a lot of people if you believe that their certification is real.
On the other hand you have people (including me) stating that they would need actual BJJ-context personal contact with the person, preferably including rolling time. Trying to establish if indeed the belt that they are verifying is "real". Which is all cool but then begs the question that WHAT are we actually assessing there and we know that peoples "belt-standards" are very varied and subjective and context can go missing. But what to do when I do not agree with someone's belt level?
"Information provided in profile is correct and presented ranks (subjectively) well-deserved?"
(the question should act as a foremost guide)
Fair enough, verifying a blackbelt takes ca 10 of those subjective standards together and I guess that is better than just one :)
Edited 6 year(s) ago
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
This is a democratic process, basically a popularity contest.
Including white or blue belts voting to verify higher ranks.
Mob governed decisions often produce some very stupid outcomes, and decisions.
The more otherwise even smart people one puts in a room, often the lower the aggregate IQ of the output decisions often become.
This is why people make fun of large bureaucratic entities ability to make good decisions or execute,
and why in business, meeting size is often kept to a small enough sized group to actually make well thought out and well discussed decisions.
But, as a social experiment, it should be fun to watch it unfold, anyway.
Including white or blue belts voting to verify higher ranks.
Mob governed decisions often produce some very stupid outcomes, and decisions.
The more otherwise even smart people one puts in a room, often the lower the aggregate IQ of the output decisions often become.
This is why people make fun of large bureaucratic entities ability to make good decisions or execute,
and why in business, meeting size is often kept to a small enough sized group to actually make well thought out and well discussed decisions.
But, as a social experiment, it should be fun to watch it unfold, anyway.
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I can't be the only person receiving friend requests for mutual verification.
While I welcome the friendship gesture but I think it goes against the spirit of what the site is intended for and I can't bring myself to vote for someone who doesn't know me and I don't know them (don't use me to get votes). Getting votes doesn't unlock any significant features on the site (yet?). Please don't use me this way :)
While I welcome the friendship gesture but I think it goes against the spirit of what the site is intended for and I can't bring myself to vote for someone who doesn't know me and I don't know them (don't use me to get votes). Getting votes doesn't unlock any significant features on the site (yet?). Please don't use me this way :)
Edited 6 year(s) ago
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Vince, good for you, bwahaha.
The social experiment continues.
I myself received a very kind and well intentioned offer.
But, I could not offer the slightest recompense even in courtesy of a gesture of action, in order to gain a vote.
If another black belt wishes to upvote me, so be it.
If they wish to down vote me, so be it.
But, I shall not give more than I have given, or that I give.
In order to beg for the affirmation to the spirits on this site.
Although, ironically, I support kind of the idea, even though I suspect the algorithm of execution proposed on this site will be just as flawed,
and probably much more flawed, than many of the other methods of recognition that we have seen so far.
Still, I enjoy chaos, so I very much enjoy this social experiment, and seeing what happens.
The social experiment continues.
I myself received a very kind and well intentioned offer.
But, I could not offer the slightest recompense even in courtesy of a gesture of action, in order to gain a vote.
If another black belt wishes to upvote me, so be it.
If they wish to down vote me, so be it.
But, I shall not give more than I have given, or that I give.
In order to beg for the affirmation to the spirits on this site.
Although, ironically, I support kind of the idea, even though I suspect the algorithm of execution proposed on this site will be just as flawed,
and probably much more flawed, than many of the other methods of recognition that we have seen so far.
Still, I enjoy chaos, so I very much enjoy this social experiment, and seeing what happens.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Let me explain something to you.
I think rank belts are silly.
But if a rank belt is placed upon me.
I shall consider it a task, or a call to service.
I will not pursue conversations for my own aggrandizement.
BUT
Nor will I say pleasing things to you, or sweet words, to gain popular vote.
I will say the things the rank belt that has been put on my waist compels me to say.
For the benefit of the community.
I do not get this authority from you, or your community.
But by my own age, and the fact that others put this belt on my waist.
I shall give up such authority as soon as the newer generations can enable me to enjoy being lazy, or I die.
But until then, I will say what I need to say not for my sake, but out of the responsibility that I find myself in.
And that is how we should approach all roles of responsibility.
Including "rank".
That is all rank ever meant, service, and rather boring, often frustrating work, especially in a community as knuckle headed as this, the Jiu-Jitsu community.
I think rank belts are silly.
But if a rank belt is placed upon me.
I shall consider it a task, or a call to service.
I will not pursue conversations for my own aggrandizement.
BUT
Nor will I say pleasing things to you, or sweet words, to gain popular vote.
I will say the things the rank belt that has been put on my waist compels me to say.
For the benefit of the community.
I do not get this authority from you, or your community.
But by my own age, and the fact that others put this belt on my waist.
I shall give up such authority as soon as the newer generations can enable me to enjoy being lazy, or I die.
But until then, I will say what I need to say not for my sake, but out of the responsibility that I find myself in.
And that is how we should approach all roles of responsibility.
Including "rank".
That is all rank ever meant, service, and rather boring, often frustrating work, especially in a community as knuckle headed as this, the Jiu-Jitsu community.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I'd love to hang on to "verify people I've met and rolled" policy but I see it creates bottlenecks. I would say it's borderline impossible William (whom I've never heard of until now) wouldn't be able to offer some serious knowledge and skill in the matter of BJJ based on info and appearance here.
So I'm willing to vouch for him not in the sense of creating a precedent but weighing my own consciousness on that specific case and thinking this vote does good for community.
So I'm willing to vouch for him not in the sense of creating a precedent but weighing my own consciousness on that specific case and thinking this vote does good for community.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Jorgen Matsi, thank you for your vote of confidence.
I am enjoying the forums.
I am enjoying the forums.
VABlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I Agree that "verify people I've met and rolled" method is limited to a certain extent. I am excited to see how the community decides, the majority will decide the direction that the voting system will take.
That is kind of the point right? Letting things take their natural course to a certain extent. Each individual will decide for them self what the voting criteria will be, so the system will have two factors; who is verified and who verified them and why.
I look forward to see what course other people , smarter then me, will take.
That is kind of the point right? Letting things take their natural course to a certain extent. Each individual will decide for them self what the voting criteria will be, so the system will have two factors; who is verified and who verified them and why.
I look forward to see what course other people , smarter then me, will take.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Plot twist: Nobody is smarter than Vilhjálmur.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I can't be the only person receiving friend requests for mutual verification. While I welcome the friendship gesture but I think it goes against the spirit of what the site is intended for and I can't bring myself to vote for someone who doesn't know me and I don't know them (don't use me to get votes). Getting votes doesn't unlock any significant features on the site (yet?). Please don't use me this way :)
Vince's post never gets old. Lol
KLBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I get many, many more friend requests on here then I do with all my social media combined. Wonder what that means..?
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I get many, many more friend requests on here then I do with all my social media combined. Wonder what that means..?
You just got relegated to be a vote ho' :)
VBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I get many, many more friend requests on here then I do with all my social media combined. Wonder what that means..?
It means there's a lot of Jiu-jitsu addicts that are lonely outside the gym and want other Jiu-jitsu addicts as friends.
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
It means there's a lot of Jiu-jitsu addicts that are lonely outside the gym and want other Jiu-jitsu addicts as friends.
Locked down at home ... nothing else to do except to bug people for votes :)
![Slideyfoot [jun]](userimg/5e25cf311adfd.jpg){kind=small}
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I get many, many more friend requests on here then I do with all my social media combined. Wonder what that means..?
Even as a brown belt I still get a fair few friend requests and "Can you vote for me" messages, so I imagine for black belts it's waaaay more (especially further up the degrees with that bigger point value to swing around). I'm even less likely to accept them now that there is the feed functionality, which you can filter by friends. ;)
DBBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Maybe in the future their could be a achievement/vote for "actually trained, rolled/competed" With this person.
The people who get voted/verified by "knowing" a person is just getting ridiculous. In my opinion.
The people who get voted/verified by "knowing" a person is just getting ridiculous. In my opinion.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Maybe in the future their could be a achievement/vote for 'actually trained, rolled/competed' With this person. The people who get voted/verified by 'knowing' a person is just getting ridiculous. In my opinion.
Outside of this site votes have zero value.
As stated by Christian this site is a social experiment. It is not a governing body so peoples votes to verify while very nice, carry no weight as to someones legitimacy. That remains between them and the person who
promoted them. Use the site how you like.
In the end it doesn't really matter.
As stated by Christian this site is a social experiment. It is not a governing body so peoples votes to verify while very nice, carry no weight as to someones legitimacy. That remains between them and the person who
promoted them. Use the site how you like.
In the end it doesn't really matter.
VBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Outside of this site votes have zero value. As stated by Christian this site is a social experiment. It is not a governing body so peoples votes to verify while very nice, carry no weight as to someones legitimacy. That remains between them and the person who promoted them. Use the site how you like. In the end it doesn't really matter.
And of course we police ourselves
