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Lets review some profiles with a lot of evidence

8 month(s) ago • 2676 views • 61 replies

Zeke
Zeke
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified142 forum posts10535/1000
8 month(s) ago
There are a lot of unverified profiles with pretty sparse evidence, and the whole ecosystem only works if we collectively review promotions and add corroboration. I’m noticing a handful of pending black belt and black+ profiles that seem well-supported and relatively uncontroversial, but they’ve been sitting unverified longer than I expected.

If anyone has time to take a look and help confirm or dispute, this ecosystem will be better for it...

Eric Huebner
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]php?id=191

Alexander Umantsev
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]hp?id=2437

Manuel Aragon
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=52688

Heiko Schönborn
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=34112

Ciprian Carausu
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=52010

Craig Willey
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=22153

Justin Norton
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]php?id=802

Tim Guikema
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=38024

Shawn Lawrence
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=13958

Rob Saxon
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=34692

Thomas Gentile
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=21367

Chris Gregory
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=13896

Gary Nee
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]hp?id=6318

Billy Brown
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=34475

Timothy Locke
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=22443

Ken Stiver
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]hp?id=9385

Andy Law
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]hp?id=7108

Michael Faugno
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=24582

Alex Ramos
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=34820

Jesse Stewart
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=52482

Maine Miller
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]hp?id=5663

Mike Ostrowski
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=52236

Let's get these off of the cluttered pending verified list, or flag any concerns.
William Murphy
William Murphy
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts26005/1000
8 month(s) ago
I gave my looks on the list.

I am a bit surprised when people do not redact their birthdate from the stuff they post online.

Self-defense, in all things.

Yeah, cyber punks, identity thieves, and stalkers, can usually get it other ways, but no reason to make it that easy.
Joe Cavett
Joe Cavett
Purple beltVerified442 forum posts4080/400
8 month(s) ago
I took a quick look at a few of them and the common thread seems to be that their instructors haven't verified them. In some cases their instructors aren't even on the site. Shouldn't really matter for the purposes of this site, but I'm sure there are those that highly value that for verification. I'll take a closer look when I've got more time.
Megaton
Megaton
Black beltVerified565 forum posts7175/1000
7 month(s) ago
There are a lot of unverified profiles with pretty sparse evidence, and the whole ecosystem only works if we collectively review promotions and add corroboration. I’m noticing a handful of pending black belt and black+ profiles that seem well-supported and relatively uncontroversial, but they’ve been sitting unverified longer than I expected. If anyone has time to take a look and help confirm or dispute, this ecosystem will be better for it... Eric Huebner https://www.beltchecker.c[...]php?id=191 Alexander Umantsev https://www.beltchecker.c[...]hp?id=2437 Manuel Aragon https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=52688 Heiko Schönborn https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=34112 Ciprian Carausu https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=52010 Craig Willey https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=22153 Justin Norton https://www.beltchecker.c[...]php?id=802 Tim Guikema https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=38024 Shawn Lawrence https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=13958 Rob Saxon https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=34692 Thomas Gentile https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=21367 Chris Gregory https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=13896 Gary Nee https://www.beltchecker.c[...]hp?id=6318 Billy Brown https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=34475 Timothy Locke https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=22443 Ken Stiver https://www.beltchecker.c[...]hp?id=9385 Andy Law https://www.beltchecker.c[...]hp?id=7108 Michael Faugno https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=24582 Alex Ramos https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=34820 Jesse Stewart https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=52482 Maine Miller https://www.beltchecker.c[...]hp?id=5663 Mike Ostrowski https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=52236 Let's get these off of the cluttered pending verified list, or flag any concerns.
I have voted a few of these up as well.
Johan
Johan
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified1434 forum posts11665/1000
7 month(s) ago
Can a BJJ brother get some love here?
Add your full lineage in the designated field on your profile and it will be much easier to verify you.

Also helps if you link to a social media post etc where Spencer Mendivil's promoting instructor confirms his original BB promotion.
Johan
Johan
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified1434 forum posts11665/1000
7 month(s) ago
Many underserving of votes on the list, who have not made suggested improvements to their profile for many months. The person with the profile should spend more time gathering and presenting evidence than verifiers need to spend finding evidence elsewhere for verifying, including needed info to check if the lineage is legit and the promoting instructor was eligible to promote.

Also, the list had four profiles (see below) with promotions to BB from instructors who couldn't had been 2:nd degree BB:s at the time, so they really belong on the unverified list until they edit their promotion history and add a senior promoting instructor along with evidence of that instructor co-promoting.

Maine Miller https://www.beltchecker.c[...]hp?id=5663
Alex Ramos https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=34820
Ciprian Carausu https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=52010
Michael Faugno https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p?id=24582
BJJ BELTCHECKER | Maine Miller (1235 points)
BJJ BELTCHECKER | Maine Miller (1235 points)

Black Belt training at John’s Hopkins

Palmito
Palmito
Black beltVerified17 forum posts1925/1000
7 month(s) ago
I could use some votes if anyone has a few minutes to spare. Let me know if my evidence isn’t sufficient. Thanks in advance!
Johan
Johan
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified1434 forum posts11665/1000
7 month(s) ago
I could use some votes if anyone has a few minutes to spare. Let me know if my evidence isn’t sufficient. Thanks in advance!
Would recommend adding links in your profile to where it can be confirmed that (and when) Israel got his original BB from Helio S (not just later stripes). And same with Joel with regards to original BB from Israel. Wasn't just a quick google to find and it should be much easier for you to find a good source than it would be for verifiers on Beltchecker, who probably only are familiar with Helio S or further up the lineage.

Your evidence is basically good, but without prior knowledge of the lineage up top someone obviously eligible to promote, it's difficult to verify. More difficult the more generations down from someone "everyone knows", so would really like to see more profiles facilitating verification up through the lineage. Or even better, encourage promoting senior black belts to join Beltchecker and uploading their own evidence, which (if accepted by the community) would really make verifying those further down the lineage easier.
Palmito
Palmito
Black beltVerified17 forum posts1925/1000
7 month(s) ago
Thanks for that feedback Johan. I've added some comments on the profile and additional evidence that I hope will help facilitate verification. I myself had difficulty finding 3rd party sources. I'll certainly encourage them to register here, but in the case they do not, it's got to start somewhere...
Palmito
Palmito
Black beltVerified17 forum posts1925/1000
7 month(s) ago
Oh man, in the process of adding more detail to my profile as Johan suggested I dumped all my votes. Guess I'm starting over...

Idea: Give new profiles a grace period do not dump votes while they get the details dialed in? Maybe this is contributing to the large number of unverified profiles?
Anthony Restuccia
Anthony Restuccia
Black beltVerified653 forum posts14460/1000
7 month(s) ago
Oh man, in the process of adding more detail to my profile as Johan suggested I dumped all my votes. Guess I'm starting over... Idea: Give new profiles a grace period do not dump votes while they get the details dialed in? Maybe this is contributing to the large number of unverified profiles?
Johan's only one vote...
Johan
Johan
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified1434 forum posts11665/1000
7 month(s) ago
Oh man, in the process of adding more detail to my profile as Johan suggested I dumped all my votes. Guess I'm starting over... Idea: Give new profiles a grace period do not dump votes while they get the details dialed in? Maybe this is contributing to the large number of unverified profiles?
I don't know what triggered the vote-reset (just adding info about your lineage doesn't), but looks like already got your previous points back, after just an hour. If you change something that resets the points, everyone who previously gave you points get's an automated request for re-verification (same happens when you add a new belt), so usually not much of a problem and certainly not why there's a bunch of unverified profiles, month after month. I think they should fall out of the "Profiles needing more votes to verify"-list (or at least require manual re-activation) after a certain amount of times (or after hitting negative points). To give more attention to new members and people who have really made an effort with their profile.

As Anthony says, I'm only one vote, but if you check the list of persons I've up voted (upwards of a thousand? and I think most got their vote from me before being fully verified), I don't think there's a single one who didn't quite quickly get verified (ie not getting stuck on the needing-votes-list for ages), even if they knew no one on Beltchecker before. So there might be something to improving your profile from a standard which Anthony would up vote to a standard which I would up vote :-).
Daniel Siriphongs
Daniel Siriphongs
Black beltVerified2 forum posts1730/1000
7 month(s) ago
I would also appreciate some votes. Just got my black belt after 9.5 years of training under my professor. Been a supporter of the Beltchecker website since the beginning, as well as a supporter of BJJ Globetrotters for a very long time. Thank you brothers and sisters!
Isaac
Isaac
Black beltVerified245 forum posts5750/1000
7 month(s) ago
I just signed up, but I am itching to get some points too. I only know a few people on this site, but it looks useful.
Johan
Johan
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified1434 forum posts11665/1000
7 month(s) ago
I just signed up, but I am itching to get some points too. I only know a few people on this site, but it looks useful.
Would in that case recommend claiming a brown belt, not a black belt from a no degree black belt (who should also add evidence to his own profile, which has nothing besides a diploma, which can and have been falsified on Beltchecker before).
Isaac
Isaac
Black beltVerified245 forum posts5750/1000
7 month(s) ago
I’d appreciate it if you took the time to do some basic research or simply asked a clarifying question before filing a factually inaccurate dispute on my profile. Looking at your own dispute history, jumping the gun seems to be your standard modus operandi. What a great welcome to the site.

No I will not be demoting myself.
Johan
Johan
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified1434 forum posts11665/1000
7 month(s) ago
I’d appreciate it if you took the time to do some basic research or simply asked a clarifying question before filing a factually inaccurate dispute on my profile. Looking at your own dispute history, jumping the gun seems to be your standard modus operandi. What a great welcome to the site. No I will not be demoting myself.
It's your promoting instructor's words, not mine, that he's a no degree black belt. What further research or clarifying information is needed? If someone else was the actual promoting instructor (with 2:nd degree or higher), your current promotion history is still incorrect as well as then lacking evidence.

Welcome to belt checker, where your belts ARE checked. You can easily step outside the voting system and still have a black (or even red) belt added by simply removing all info from e.g. the blue belt - your promotion history becomes unvoteable.
Isaac
Isaac
Black beltVerified245 forum posts5750/1000
7 month(s) ago
It's your promoting instructor's words, not mine, that he's a no degree black belt. What further research or clarifying information is needed? If someone else was the actual promoting instructor (with 2:nd degree or higher), your current promotion history is still incorrect as well as then lacking evidence. Welcome to belt checker, where your belts ARE checked. You can easily step outside the voting system and still have a black (or even red) belt added by simply removing all info from e.g. the blue belt - your promotion history becomes unvoteable.
Again, you are factually incorrect. Those are your words, not his. If you had done any basic due diligence—like looking at his belt in the photos I provided or doing the math on his black belt certificate—you wouldn't be pushing these inaccuracies. But actual research clearly isn't your goal here. I’ll also remind you of this site’s own FAQ: 'There are several different standards in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for who can promote who and we don't endorse any specific of them. On Beltchecker.com the vote of the community is the only judge of legitimacy.' You are free to hold me to whatever arbitrary standard you want, but I hope the rest of this community doesn't conform to your rigid obsession with IBJJF rules.
Christian Graugart
Christian Graugart
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4342 forum posts40245/1000
7 month(s) ago
Again, you are factually incorrect. Those are your words, not his. If you had done any basic due diligence—like looking at his belt in the photos I provided or doing the math on his black belt certificate—you wouldn't be pushing these inaccuracies. But actual research clearly isn't your goal here. I’ll also remind you of this site’s own FAQ: 'There are several different standards in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for who can promote who and we don't endorse any specific of them. On Beltchecker.com the vote of the community is the only judge of legitimacy.' You are free to hold me to whatever arbitrary standard you want, but I hope the rest of this community doesn't conform to your rigid obsession with IBJJF rules.
Hey Chad. Welcome to Beltchecker. Over the years, it's become pretty standard consensus that people who verify profiles are looking for a connection to at least a second degree black belt for black belt promotions. If you do not put the name of the 2nd degree overseeing the promotions in your promotion record, then there's a good chance that people will comment on it or they might even downvote your profile. Don't take it personal, it's called "belt checker" after all. Just add the name of the overseeing 2nd+ degree black belt to the comment section in your promotion history and all will be solved. Much easier and faster than arguing about it here 🙂
Isaac
Isaac
Black beltVerified245 forum posts5750/1000
7 month(s) ago
Christian, thank you for the welcome and the context. Logically, though, I don't see how simply typing a name into a comment box provides any actual evidence—I could just as easily type that Helio Gracie approved my promotion, lol. A confirmed 3-stripe black belt who personally knows me and the exact circumstances of my promotion has already upvoted my profile. I prefer not to rely on self-attested claims; when I have indisputable documentation, I will submit it. I am only 'arguing' here because of the irritation of Johan spreading factually false information—which, looking at his history, seems to be a pattern for him. However, I’ve made my point and I will leave it be. I am done responding to this thread. Thanks again.
Johan
Johan
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified1434 forum posts11665/1000
7 month(s) ago
Again, you are factually incorrect. Those are your words, not his. If you had done any basic due diligence—like looking at his belt in the photos I provided or doing the math on his black belt certificate—you wouldn't be pushing these inaccuracies. But actual research clearly isn't your goal here. I’ll also remind you of this site’s own FAQ: 'There are several different standards in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for who can promote who and we don't endorse any specific of them. On Beltchecker.com the vote of the community is the only judge of legitimacy.' You are free to hold me to whatever arbitrary standard you want, but I hope the rest of this community doesn't conform to your rigid obsession with IBJJF rules.
Thick stache and more hair on the single very small pic on his own profile, which is where HE writes no degree BB as latest degree, while still being logged in only 12h ago (and confirming your promotion). No matter if it was 3y since his BB promotion, he has not claimed a 1:st degree or who (if anyone) promoted him to that degree.
So it's really up to you and your instructor to help belt checkers connect the dots (e.g. telling us who we see in the pics), unless you're only looking for verification from people you already know (which does not seem to be the case here). One degree is still less than two.

You can get a diploma from Beltchecker if you reach 1000 verification points, but even so, your belt will not be a universally recognized legitimate one if it's from a <2:nd degree BB. Which anyone who will check your Beltchecker profile (also linked with QR from the diploma, I believe) will clearly be able to see and make their own judgment if that makes you a legitimate BB or not in their eyes. So no, the community as a while is not the only judge of legitimacy. Every single member checking your profile is a judge. If someone has down voted you because you have the wrong color hair or they feel you dissed their team mate, that probably won't affect other viewers judgment of your belt legitimacy. Having a <2:nd degree BB promoting you to BB (and others pointing that out) most certainly will in many cases.

If there's an actual senior promoting instructor with >2:nd degree BB, some will up vote you even if you just add that name in a comment under the belt. But if there's such a promoting instructor, others (e.g. your's truly) want to see that actually written in the "Promoted by:" field (comments can later disappear without triggering re-verification while actually changing the "Promoted by" makes it hard coded).

You say arbitrary standard and call it obsession with IBJJF rules and sure there are lineages which takes a less-than approach to promotion standards. But how can you say that applies to your own lineage, when it's a lineage under the founder of IBJJF and CBJJ? And Mike Buckels, who presents himself as being American Technical Director of IBJJF 2007-2011. Can you tell me who along your lineage said "screw your promotion standards" to his own promoting instructor?

Also, I've been training BJJ for longer than IBJJF has existed (founded 2002) and the standard of only senior BB:s promoting others to BB is not their invention but has been around for much longer. If you don't believe me, try to find someone on Beltchecker where you along their lineage can see a promotion to BB in the early 90:s or even earlier which is not a promotion from a then already senior BB (>2:nd degree and in most cases also the team patriarch).
Johan
Johan
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified1434 forum posts11665/1000
7 month(s) ago
Christian, thank you for the welcome and the context. Logically, though, I don't see how simply typing a name into a comment box provides any actual evidence—I could just as easily type that Helio Gracie approved my promotion, lol. A confirmed 3-stripe black belt who personally knows me and the exact circumstances of my promotion has already upvoted my profile. I prefer not to rely on self-attested claims; when I have indisputable documentation, I will submit it. I am only 'arguing' here because of the irritation of Johan spreading factually false information—which, looking at his history, seems to be a pattern for him. However, I’ve made my point and I will leave it be. I am done responding to this thread. Thanks again.
A name in a box is NOT evidence in itself. You should of course provide evidence that the name in the box actually promoted you. See https://www.beltchecker.c[...]amp;page=2 for some advice on what you can add as evidence.

A 3:rd degree up voting you isn't evidence either, unless he's the one you listed as your promoting instructor. If a 3:rd degree up voting you would be a done deal, 3:rd degree votes would be worth 1000 points by themselves.

Why do you accuse me of spreading false information instead of the first hand source of that information, which was your own instructor David? In any case, a 0:th degree with 3y experience as a BB or 1:st degree are both <2:nd degree, so does it matter here? If you believe I have spread false information in any previous vote, please point those specific vote out (links!) and I will gladly review them again.

As I've already explained, you always have the option of removing e.g. all blue belt data and you will have an unvoteable profile, which can easily be made voteable again once you've added your indisputable documentation.
BJJ BELTCHECKER | Can purple belts promote??
BJJ BELTCHECKER | Can purple belts promote??

I have seen on Instagram today, two people locally to me have been promoted to blue belt by a purple belt. Is this allowed? I seem to remember it being allowed for remote locations discretionally if there are no black belts around but there are dozens of Black Belts locally to the area. - Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

William Murphy
William Murphy
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts26005/1000
6 month(s) ago
Im needing some votes if anyone has time to check out my profile please.
Can you post your instructor's lineage, so we can see if up the chain, we the older farts, might know somebody in your older lineage, we can ping, so we can help you out?

Josh Johnson
Josh Johnson
Black beltVerified8 forum posts1665/1000
6 month(s) ago
Its on there. Shawn hammonds is who he is under. Shawn is not on here but im sure he will vouch for me and Jon Haskew as well if anyone knows him.
William Murphy
William Murphy
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts26005/1000
6 month(s) ago
Its on there. Shawn hammonds is who he is under. Shawn is not on here but im sure he will vouch for me and Jon Haskew as well if anyone knows him.
Who was Shawn Hammonds instructor?
It is really helpful to post one's lineage back to the Gracies, or Fadda, etc.
That helps us verify you, because we cannot contact someone we know to confirm.
And, at some points all the BJJ lineages go back to just a few players.
William Murphy
William Murphy
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts26005/1000
6 month(s) ago
Here, I looked up your lineage for you, so everyone can see it.

Is this correct?

Lineage: Mitsuyo Maeda > Carlos Gracie > Helio Gracie > Rickson Gracie > Jorge Pereira > Leo Dalla > Lloyd Irvin > Shawn Hammonds

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