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What are your personal criteria for verifying a profile?

6 year(s) ago • 1656 views • 106 replies

Seymour Yang
Seymour Yang
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified16 forum posts7155/1000
6 year(s) ago
My first criteria is if it is someone I’ve personally met, trained and rolled with. But if I haven't met them personally but their instructor is someone I’ve met and know then I consider that of equal merit.
Next on the pecking order is if it is someone I am online friends on Facebook with over a number of years.
Last, I’ll sometimes verify someone who’s credentials are so obviously legit eg copious competition stats, photos of their promotions. It’s quite time consuming to go through their details so I’ll dip in and out every so often. Apologies if anyone was expecting me to verify them and I haven’t done so.
Michael   Mahaffey
Michael Mahaffey
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified27 forum posts1830/1000
6 year(s) ago
Given that only one other practitioner from Michigan is here (that I know of), and him I only know tangentially, I have had similar criteria to Mr. Yang (above) for verifying people. If I know you personally, then it is pretty much automatic (assuming you aren't a fakey-faker, lol). Since I don't know a lot of people here in person, if I know you via social media, and we have friends in common that trust your credentials, I will verify. I will also look at uploaded documents and do the occasional IBJJF and Google search. But over all I have been reticent to vote yay or nay on most of the folks who have been cold calling me.
Jacob Michael Bateman
Jacob Michael Bateman
Black belt 1st degreeVerified60 forum posts3300/1000
6 year(s) ago
The higher the rank, the higher the standard...this has been my order of importance thus far

1. Do I know the person
2. Have I trained with them
3. Does someone else I know, know them
4. Do they have reasonable lineage / photos / comp history

I dont feel it meaningful to simply click for the sake of clicking - kind of seems pointless to the process.
Jacob Michael Bateman
Jacob Michael Bateman
Black belt 1st degreeVerified60 forum posts3300/1000
6 year(s) ago
To be fair, thank goodness for digital cameras and the internet/social media, or else I may not remember much about any of my promotions before brown belt, lol. I never did get a certificate for any other than brown, and had to scour Facebook to remember the dates of my promotions to blue and purple. And although I did not get a black belt certificate, I've competed in IBJJF as a black belt, and have a pic of me and my kids and coaches (Matt Linsemier and Chris Haueter) on my promotion day. I've done martial arts for a long time (since age 14 in 1986), but not BJJ for the entire time. If anyone asked me to prove/verify dates of my karate black belt promotions I'd be scouring our attic for moldy paper for weeks. Praise digital media and all that ;-)
I was late to technology in general, and then took a big social media hiatus (years). Honestly, I would have continued were it not a necessity as a gym owner. I had to reactivate old accounts, and even get some friends to donate pictures from an old MySpace account he was able to access. All in all we do live in a time and age where this will be much easier to access in the future, and it shows a commitment to this social experiment to go through the entirety of the process to get a profile up and running. The beauty of supporting this site is that is could streamline a lot of information for future generations!
Michael   Mahaffey
Michael Mahaffey
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified27 forum posts1830/1000
6 year(s) ago
I was late to technology in general, and then took a big social media hiatus (years). Honestly, I would have continued were it not a necessity as a gym owner. I had to reactivate old accounts, and even get some friends to donate pictures from an old MySpace account he was able to access. All in all we do live in a time and age where this will be much easier to access in the future, and it shows a commitment to this social experiment to go through the entirety of the process to get a profile up and running. The beauty of supporting this site is that is could streamline a lot of information for future generations!
Totally agree! It was a good portion of the reason I made a profile - to streamline record keeping of my BJJ journey.

Now for me to look up the dozens of competitions I have done, lol. I took a hiatus from competing between blue and brown belt for health reasons, but came back and have competed almost obsessively since brown. I’m not spectacular at competing, but want to do as much as I can while I am healthy enough.
Jason Figliano
Jason Figliano
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified56 forum posts8340/1000
6 year(s) ago
I think (When it comes to Black Belts) there is more than enough information online with pictures and social media that someone should have a few pictures and links somewhere in Google Land, I think it becomes harder for Black Belts that received it quiet q while ago where taking pictures and social media was not as big. I would play off what other people have verified. If a Legit verified Black Belt verified you, than I would be inclined to do the same
Kyle Baker
Kyle Baker
Black beltVerified62 forum posts5155/1000
6 year(s) ago
I don't understand the point of verifying based on appearing in IBJJF listings. That's really not reliable enough for me, and is against the point of this site.
William Murphy
William Murphy
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts25730/1000
6 year(s) ago
Kyle Baker, if it is not reliable enough for you, that is very relevant for your vote, and your voting.

However the point of this site is that each participant is able to use their own methods of verification and casting their vote.

Therefore, if some members give weight to IBJJF certification as a coach or competitor, that is not against the purpose of this site.

It would only be against the purpose of this site, if it was mandated that you had to give weight to IBJJF certification as athletes or coaches,

or if it was mandated that you could not give weight to IBJJF certification as athletes or coaches.

Edited 6 year(s) ago
DP
Deleted Profile
Black belt 3rd degreePending104 forum posts0/1000
6 year(s) ago
Kyle,
I think its more reliable then a bunch of strangers who may have met you once or twice at a camp voting for you. At least with IBJJF registered black belts you know a IBJJF registered second degree registered blackbelt has signed off for your and also confirmed your promotion as the "promoting instructor". At this point the point of contention falls on the promoting 2nd degree black belt. Also you have to pass a background check and attend a referee course. This at least provides some level of knowledge.
For example (and not saying I would ever do this), I can send one of my top purple belts to a globetrotters camp and have him wear a black belt. He will likely go in and tap some if not most of the black belts..... then those black belts would potentially now verify him. Since they are not his professor, their opinion does not matter to me. At least with IBJJF black belt registration you know someone who is legit is whiling to put their name and reputation on the line for a black belts. Can this verification be paid for via a bribe....sure, but that applies to any other form of promotion.
At the end of the day, I see this site as a great place to build a community of like minded individuals, but I put absolutely no stake into its vetting process. As we attain more members, this may one day change for me..... but as of now, its nothing more than an interesting experiment and a good place to make some new friends.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
William Murphy
William Murphy
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts25730/1000
6 year(s) ago
Another poster had previously PM'ed me for information about the IBJJF process, I paste it here as well:

One may compete in IBJJF with a competitor's membership card.

The IBJJF membership card is less than $40 per year,

and only requires that your rank as a black belt is verified by the signature on the right form by an IBJJF certified black belt of 2nd degree or higher (or 3rd degree if you have never been on record with the IBJJF as a competitor prior to brown or black belt).

No rules course etc required.

If you wish to be IBJJF certified as a black belt with a certificate and not just a black belt competitor card

(the equivalent of being a Judo rank examiner in that sport for the USJA but for BJJ with the IBJJF), then as a black belt you need to:

1) Pass the IBJJF background check ($20 or so in the US), which rules out violent or sexual felony criminals,

2) pass the IBJJF rules course including the end exam within the prior 12 months (usually $80 in the US),

3) show proof of competing a first aid and cpr certification,

4) Have your rank as a black belt verified by the signature on the right form by an IBJJF certified black belt of 2nd degree or higher (or 3rd degree if you have never been on record with the IBJJF as a competitor prior to brown or black belt).

5) Pay $400 to the IBJJF for the certification process to check that all the requirements above were passed and review your promotion history and the evidence of those promotions, for which they will sometimes request promotion certificates signed by your Professor and dated pictures of promotion periods etc as additional proof if you have never been on record before.

6) To stay actively certified as a rank examiner after that, you pay a lesser fee per year, I think it is less than $100,
and every time you apply for a new degree rank, you have to show proof again of passing the background check, a renewed first aid / cpr course, and pass the rules course including end exam,
but you never have to pay $400 again, that is just for the first credentialing review as a black belt rank examiner.

For number 5, I always recommend a picture with the signing Professor,
standing next to you with both of you wearing your respective belts,
and you holding your in-house promotion certificate, dated and signed, facing the camera.
It is even better if the picture was pasted on Facebook with the datestamp of the promotion clearly visible, and then you screenshot the whole deal and send that into them.
The more thorough you are, the more quickly the process generally takes.
Christian Graugart
Christian GraugartOP
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4325 forum posts39420/1000
6 year(s) ago
For example (and not saying I would ever do this), I can send one of my top purple belts to a globetrotters camp and have him wear a black belt. He will likely go in and tap some if not most of the black belts..... then those black belts would potentially now verify him.
This in an interesting mind experiment, though.

If someone is a purple belt but they can consistently tap "some if not most" of a large group of random black belts of all levels - is this person not actually a black belt? If this person competes in purple belt division, would that be fair?
William Murphy
William Murphy
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts25730/1000
6 year(s) ago
Mifune Sensei said there were three paths to black belt:
1) Competitive Ability
2) Teaching Ability
3) Recognition of a lifetime of service or after one’s death in recognition of a great sacrifice for the art.
DP
Deleted Profile
Black belt 3rd degreePending104 forum posts0/1000
6 year(s) ago
If someone is a purple belt but they can consistently tap "some if not most" of a large group of random black belts of all levels - is this person not actually a black belt? If this person competes in purple belt division, would that be fair?
It totally is Christian. If you look at the guys winning worlds at purple and brown in the 18-30 division, chances are they can tap the vast majority of recreational black belts. For example we look at a guy like Nick Rodriguez. He is a purple and he beat some of the best black belts in the world.
Does that mean its unfair when he competes against other purple belts? Sure
Should he be a black belt at this time? No, since he still lacks many of the technical skills in BJJ that are needed to be proficient.
Having trained with many world champions while living in San Diego and now training with many Div1 wrestlers who have started BJJ, I routinely see visiting blackbelts get wrecked by top level competitor purples and browns. The beat guys with a few really good moves and a lot of athleticism.
As blackbelts this can be damaging to our ego to hear, but the reality is that it happens...a lot...and people don't want to talk about it.
If you look at tournaments like NAGA, purple and brown belts regularly win the expert division against black belts. With this being the case why don't they get promoted to black belt. I can only tell you from my perspective that its because they lack the ability to teach and pass down the art effectively. That for me is a critical aspect I look at when promoting guys. Not to go on a tangent, but this kind of brings up my criteria for promotion:
-25% Skill/Competition success/Gym dominance
-25% Personal conduct/TIme in rank
-50% Knowledge and Teaching ability
Kyle Baker
Kyle Baker
Black beltVerified62 forum posts5155/1000
6 year(s) ago
It is a great thought experiment, and I feel like there are at least two good responses. One is Christian's, which I feel hits at the real issue. The black belt level should probably be about purple belt, and our level of 'veneration' for black belt should be aimed more at, say, a 3rd degree black belt. This is essentially how Judo in Japan is, and I think it makes a lot more sense for a lot of reasons, some critical ones of which are discussed above. In Judo, black belt isn't thought of as a mark of being ready to teach, but as an indicator of broad, fundamental competence. A third degree is the beginning of being thought of as a teacher. A 5th degree is when you are thought of as a teacher of teachers. 6th and above is essentially honorary, and no one can really have any expectation to those ranks--they are honorary, and based on exceptional service and competence.

But, since the current effort isn't really to change the belt system in BJJ across the board (yet?), I would say that in your thought experiment, such a person would be verified--for a while.

But as soon as it goes into dispute and is questioned (by anyone at their gym who knows they're a purple belt, or who competed with them a few months earlier, etc.), and people start looking into it, I think you'd see a wave of vote reversals. In other words, trust is given until there is reason to revoke it, and if that trust for the person is shallow, it will easily be reversed.

Because this is a dynamic, live system, it can be responsive. It would respond like an immune system--the virus multiplies in silence for a while, and then once the threat is identified, knowledge of the threat spreads, and the system turns against the 'imposter'.

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