What about this question. I think this would be cool to know. Who or how many on belt checker can trace their lineage to someone either than a Gracie? Or even a non Maeda lineage?

BJJ BELTCHECKER | Practitioner database & community based belt verification for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Free online BJJ community & belt certification

There are a couple who choose to display a non BJJ promotion history, partially or fully. Some, like in this case https://www.beltchecker.c[...]amp;page=2, have a BJJ degree and lineage as well but prefer to display the non BJJ degree and promoting instructor (who might or might not have an (honorary?) BB, perhaps from John Machado, but doesn't promote in or represent BJJ). Gokor is obviously a very skilled grappler even compared to most BJJ BB:s and at least has BJJ BB:s studying under him, but hasn't acquired the greater part of his skills through BJJ exposure. He is registered in IBJJF and won in the 2019 Masters, but in an interview after admitted he basically had no idea of the BJJ rules. So he obviously never passed the controls of showing a IBJJF rules course certificate that is mandatory for mere mortals to get a certified BB with IBJJF, nor is there any records of the mandatory passing through colored belts. So a IBJJF certification is clearly not a guarantee that someone has jumped through the hoops that they claim everyone has to. But let's play with the thought of someone at Gokor's level but not IBJJF certified or with any documented BJJ exposure or tutelage would really like the BJJ name for marketing purposes and wanted to use that. Would the community accept that they started an entirely new non Maeda lineage at this point in time? Has something similar ever happened? Perhaps a bit of the same question Jay was asking. It kinda always comes down to the question 'What is BJJ?'.

Totally get it and agree with you. My question was off the topic of Gokor. I know there's a whole other thread for that. I was wondering who had clear and legit lineages to a non Gracie or non Maeda.

There are a couple who choose to display a non BJJ promotion history, partially or fully. Some, like in this case https://www.beltchecker.c[...]amp;page=2, have a BJJ degree and lineage as well but prefer to display the non BJJ degree and promoting instructor (who might or might not have an (honorary?) BB, perhaps from John Machado, but doesn't promote in or represent BJJ). Gokor is obviously a very skilled grappler even compared to most BJJ BB:s and at least has BJJ BB:s studying under him, but hasn't acquired the greater part of his skills through BJJ exposure. He is registered in IBJJF and won in the 2019 Masters, but in an interview after admitted he basically had no idea of the BJJ rules. So he obviously never passed the controls of showing a IBJJF rules course certificate that is mandatory for mere mortals to get a certified BB with IBJJF, nor is there any records of the mandatory passing through colored belts. So a IBJJF certification is clearly not a guarantee that someone has jumped through the hoops that they claim everyone has to. But let's play with the thought of someone at Gokor's level but not IBJJF certified or with any documented BJJ exposure or tutelage would really like the BJJ name for marketing purposes and wanted to use that. Would the community accept that they started an entirely new non Maeda lineage at this point in time? Has something similar ever happened? Perhaps a bit of the same question Jay was asking. It kinda always comes down to the question 'What is BJJ?'.

I think a more suitable question is “who owns BJJ?”. I think it needs to be established that the IBJJF (which you seem to hold everyone to that standard) do not own BJJ. This site is supposed to be an alternative to it, yet you shove it down everyone’s throat without asking the question if they want to be recognised by the IBJJF. If they do, then of course, give them guidance. But dont just assume that everyone wants to be recognised by them or play to their rules. If there are people out there that are part of an association, have their own grappling system, gradings, standards, and can demonstrate technical and/or competitive competency, then who’s to say they cant have it? They could enter every non IBJJF event as per their grade level and perform well. Who is going to tell them that they cant have the belt? An individual or group of individuals could set up an association tomorrow and develop their own belt system and no one can do anything about it. There are multi style martial arts associations out there that can be apprached by BJJ’ers and they can authorise a grading system with IBJJF in sight. There are a handful of judo associations within the UK including the British Judo Association which utilises IJF rules. And then you have the British Judo Council, the Amateur Judo Association, Judo For All UK and probably others. The non BJA vary their rules with some allowing leg grabs and some allowing more newaza. Their grading system also differs whereby the likes of the AJA has different requirements to attain black belt in the higher age categories e.g. if someone does not win their batsugun line up on the day then they can accumulate 50 points to get black belt rather than 100 in the younger categories. Whereas the BJA is batsugun or 100 points. The BJC I believe has annual grading competitions with competition format. Who tells them that they arent worthy of their black belts?

Ah, when I come to think of it, I guess you mean the non-Maeda lineages listed on https://www.rolljunkie.co[...]neage-tree ? With Kazuo Yoshida or Takeo Iano in place of Maeda?

well known names of the 90:s?

Yes. That's it. Like, who do we have on Beltchecker that can trace their lineages to them?

This is totally unrelated to the question, but as I've been wondering about it for a while: how come you use a colon on 90s? I've seen people (incorrectly) stick an apostrophe and put 90's, or the more accurate option of '90s (as that indicates the missing bit at the start, usually for 1990s), but you're the only person I've seen go with 90:s. ;)

Lineage: Mitsuyo 'Count Koma' Maeda → Carlos Gracie, Sr. → Helio Gracie → Royler Gracie → Wellington 'Megaton' Dias →Patrick Robinson →Jerry Gonzalez