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noGi and belts - question for the BB‘s
2 year(s) ago • 2529 views • 57 replies
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Another marketing tool or a solution for this dilemma?
Wait… are those underpants or fight shorts? :)
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I have a student who is doing MMA. He is a white belt but they won't allow him to compete in white belt No Gi but to Blue Belt No Gi.
Purple beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
That is what Dan Gable had to say about steroid use by grappling athletes, and that is good enough for me.
Dan Gable is a phenomenal wrestler. But that affords him absolutely zero expertise of physiology and psychology. He is entitled to his opinion, but that's a very weak appeal to authority. In generally it's a mistake to believe that every statement a person ever makes is sincere.
A famous statement from Dan Gable.
"If I knew I was going to Wrestle in the finals of the Olympics against a Russian and I knew he had been training specifically to beat me, but then I knew the guy was on Steroids, That would HELP me. Whereas some might think 'oh he's cheating, for me you didn't pay the price. You're not as committed as I am. It'll tear him apart. He may be strong, but all I have to do during that 9 minutes of wrestling is loosen one single wire in his brain, make him do something that isn't perfect, and he'll fall apart."
Believing that Dan is being sincere there is naïve. Thinking that's how steroids work is ignorant of how steroids work.
The reality is the the Russian elite wrestler has dedicated his whole life to his sport, is entitled committed and focused on nothing else. And on top of that is on steroids.
Imagine thinking Alexander Karelin lacked toughness. LMFAO
A famous statement from Dan Gable.
"If I knew I was going to Wrestle in the finals of the Olympics against a Russian and I knew he had been training specifically to beat me, but then I knew the guy was on Steroids, That would HELP me. Whereas some might think 'oh he's cheating, for me you didn't pay the price. You're not as committed as I am. It'll tear him apart. He may be strong, but all I have to do during that 9 minutes of wrestling is loosen one single wire in his brain, make him do something that isn't perfect, and he'll fall apart."
Believing that Dan is being sincere there is naïve. Thinking that's how steroids work is ignorant of how steroids work.
The reality is the the Russian elite wrestler has dedicated his whole life to his sport, is entitled committed and focused on nothing else. And on top of that is on steroids.
Imagine thinking Alexander Karelin lacked toughness. LMFAO
Purple beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
The 'old Gracies' most certainly did not wear the Gi to fight in Vale Tudo. In most cases they did not wear a gi. A simple Google search will prove that. Carlos, George, Helio, Carlson, Robson, Rickson etc all were pretty much bare chested for their vale tudo matches. They did some Gi matches for sure but it was not the only way they fought.
I can't see the post that claimed they only fought in the Gi. Maybe it was deleted. But lol. Sounds like somebody watched UFC 1 and nothing else. Forgetting all the other Gracies. "Royce always wore a gi" is simply not true. why do people make these claims without checking them
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I can't see the post that claimed they only fought in the Gi. Maybe it was deleted. But lol. Sounds like somebody watched UFC 1 and nothing else. Forgetting all the other Gracies. 'Royce always wore a gi' is simply not true. why do people make these claims without checking them
No one said that.
Are you a ventriloquist?
Because, it would seem like,
on the last post,
you were throwing your own voice.
Saying something, that no one else, here, besides you, said.
Are you a ventriloquist?
Because, it would seem like,
on the last post,
you were throwing your own voice.
Saying something, that no one else, here, besides you, said.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Decades of documented and recorded fights, in gi, and without, before UFC 1.
In Brasil,
And many other places, and venues.
Including the Americas, right up until the television,
made the moral majority
prefer a circus,
And obvious kayfabe,
gymnastics, and razzle dazzle,
over brutal real matches.
But, there is a trail of newspaper articles,
and often following legislative action,
After combatants
died, or lost an eye,
or got crippled.
In Brasil,
the United States,
And other places in the world.
UFC 1, was just another restart,
of a very long standing,
and constant cycle,
in this space.
In Brasil,
And many other places, and venues.
Including the Americas, right up until the television,
made the moral majority
prefer a circus,
And obvious kayfabe,
gymnastics, and razzle dazzle,
over brutal real matches.
But, there is a trail of newspaper articles,
and often following legislative action,
After combatants
died, or lost an eye,
or got crippled.
In Brasil,
the United States,
And other places in the world.
UFC 1, was just another restart,
of a very long standing,
and constant cycle,
in this space.
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Dan Gable is a phenomenal wrestler. But that affords him absolutely zero expertise of physiology and psychology.
I say this only for the new people, with apologies, as this is so well known, and basic.
Dan Gable produced an amazing number of wrestling champions, and wrestling championship teams.
Which, I know, many if not most of you already knew.
Dan Gable was also quite an unusual competitor.
Therefore, his track record of competitive excellence, and coaching excellence, rival the credentials, and experience, of just about any grappling GOAT of their generation, as a coach, or competitor, that we could invoke.
Dan Gable produced an amazing number of wrestling champions, and wrestling championship teams.
Which, I know, many if not most of you already knew.
Dan Gable was also quite an unusual competitor.
Therefore, his track record of competitive excellence, and coaching excellence, rival the credentials, and experience, of just about any grappling GOAT of their generation, as a coach, or competitor, that we could invoke.
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
No one said that. Are you a ventriloquist? Because, it would seem like, on the last post, you were throwing your own voice. Saying something, that no one else, here, besides you, said.
Someone did post that the Old Gracies only wore a Gi to fight.
I responded. /of story
I responded. /of story
Edited 2 year(s) ago
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Someone did post that the Old Gracies only wore a Gi to fight. I responded. /of story
Then, in that case, I stand corrected, I stand there often.
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Dan Gable is a phenomenal wrestler. But that affords him absolutely zero expertise of physiology and psychology. He is entitled to his opinion, but that's a very weak appeal to authority. In generally it's a mistake to believe that every statement a person ever makes is sincere. A famous statement from Dan Gable. 'If I knew I was going to Wrestle in the finals of the Olympics against a Russian and I knew he had been training specifically to beat me, but then I knew the guy was on Steroids, That would HELP me. Whereas some might think 'oh he's cheating, for me you didn't pay the price. You're not as committed as I am. It'll tear him apart. He may be strong, but all I have to do during that 9 minutes of wrestling is loosen one single wire in his brain, make him do something that isn't perfect, and he'll fall apart.' Believing that Dan is being sincere there is naïve. Thinking that's how steroids work is ignorant of how steroids work. The reality is the the Russian elite wrestler has dedicated his whole life to his sport, is entitled committed and focused on nothing else. And on top of that is on steroids. Imagine thinking Alexander Karelin lacked toughness. LMFAO
It seems more like a way to think, like a coach motivation speech to believe in yourself and go crush your opponent.
Something else, even if you don't have a beautiful paper who claims you're a psycologist or something like that, being an athlete like he was and then coaching teams and champions for decades give you some understanding of human nature at least.
Something else, even if you don't have a beautiful paper who claims you're a psycologist or something like that, being an athlete like he was and then coaching teams and champions for decades give you some understanding of human nature at least.
Purple beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
No one said that. Are you a ventriloquist? Because, it would seem like, on the last post, you were throwing your own voice. Saying something, that no one else, here, besides you, said.
The phrase confidently incorrect seems appropriate. lol
Purple beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
It seems more like a way to think, like a coach motivation speech to believe in yourself and go crush your opponent. Something else, even if you don't have a beautiful paper who claims you're a psycologist or something like that, being an athlete like he was and then coaching teams and champions for decades give you some understanding of human nature at least.
Of course. It's clearly a statement on intent, positive mental attitude.
It's a bit silly to think he meant it literally and to think that steroids are actually a disadvantage in those area. Crazy to even point that out.
It's a bit silly to think he meant it literally and to think that steroids are actually a disadvantage in those area. Crazy to even point that out.
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
The phrase confidently incorrect seems appropriate. lol
You seem to have a Pot - kettle, serially.
Although, outliers are also a thing.
I don't mind admitting my mine,
when they occur.
Although, outliers are also a thing.
I don't mind admitting my mine,
when they occur.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Of course. It's clearly a statement on intent, positive mental attitude. It's a bit silly to think he meant it literally and to think that steroids are actually a disadvantage in those area. Crazy to even point that out.
Sure, steroids, or any magic potion, is a mental or physical crutch.
Purple beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
You seem to have a Pot - kettle, serially. Although, outliers are also a thing. I don't mind admitting my mine, when they occur.
Not sure how pot kettle apples there. You were incorrect. I was not.
You have a very unusual syntax in your posting style. Hard to follow what you are trying to say sometimes.
You have a very unusual syntax in your posting style. Hard to follow what you are trying to say sometimes.
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Not sure how pot kettle apples there. You were incorrect. I was not. You have a very unusual syntax in your posting style. Hard to follow what you are trying to say sometimes.
Text to Speech.
Dictated, sometimes read, sometimes not.
We are all incorrect, serially.
That is the fun part.
It's guaranteed, given even a small number of trials.
Or, we are not working hard enough.
Likewise, broken clocks, blind squirrels, and fair coins.
<It's not just the syntax, sometimes>
Sometimes, it's just Vanity, on my part.
Or the reader's part.
Maybe even other's parts.
Who can say?
Regarding post styles,
blame E.E. Cummings.
For Grammar.
Andrew Jackson, for spelling.
I do like,
And allow,
For a healthy dose,
Of Chaos.
Samba! Samba!
In such ways,
Systems thrive.
And, are more resilient.
Dictated, sometimes read, sometimes not.
We are all incorrect, serially.
That is the fun part.
It's guaranteed, given even a small number of trials.
Or, we are not working hard enough.
Likewise, broken clocks, blind squirrels, and fair coins.
<It's not just the syntax, sometimes>
Sometimes, it's just Vanity, on my part.
Or the reader's part.
Maybe even other's parts.
Who can say?
Regarding post styles,
blame E.E. Cummings.
For Grammar.
Andrew Jackson, for spelling.
I do like,
And allow,
For a healthy dose,
Of Chaos.
Samba! Samba!
In such ways,
Systems thrive.
And, are more resilient.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
This has gotten off topic.
Does anyone have thoughts on allowing students to train almost exclusively nogi, but requiring learning gi specific techniques for the belt rank in question if the student wants promoted?
Does anyone have thoughts on allowing students to train almost exclusively nogi, but requiring learning gi specific techniques for the belt rank in question if the student wants promoted?
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
This has gotten off topic. Does anyone have thoughts on allowing students to train almost exclusively nogi, but requiring learning gi specific techniques for the belt rank in question if the student wants promoted?
It will be challenging to teach gi specific techniques, eg. Lapel chokes or movements involving or relying on specific gi grips to no gi then assessing clients on those criteria’s. It will be confusing and frustrating for all parties in my experience so i don’t do that
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Maybe this was dicussed before but I want to pick up some of Your todays opinions for the following question: should I promote people who train noGi only? This is actually a question in my gym and I am straight on a „no!“-position at the moment. If someone wants to compete I will surely sign for the adequate level but a belt is part of a Gi and noGi is no belt for me. Some thoughts?
If you never wear a gi, that tells me you don't want a belt.
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
If you never wear a gi, that tells me you don't want a belt.
And who should want a rank belt, except children?
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
And who should want a rank belt, except children?
Not the people training nogi, that's for sure. :P
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Not the people training nogi, that's for sure. :P
How many people, here, do not train no gi?
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
These last few posts do bring up an interesting thought. It's always been said that you don't need belts in Nogi because you have no GI to wear it with. However one could easily make the argument that you don't need colored belts or a ranking system anymore in GI than nogi. I'm going to spend way more time thinking about this than I should.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Does anyone have thoughts on allowing students to train almost exclusively nogi, but requiring learning gi specific techniques for the belt rank in question if the student wants promoted?
For me, this is no problem. Just check the box, suck it up, and throw a gi on every now and then, assuming you want a belt.
I think that if you just train like ~10% or more in a gi, assuming you're training at regular intervals (~2-3×/wk) then that really shouldn't affect your progression, on average.
In the end though, I feel like you should be observing *proficiency* in the gi, and not just *kata*
Only my professional opinion, of course.
I think that if you just train like ~10% or more in a gi, assuming you're training at regular intervals (~2-3×/wk) then that really shouldn't affect your progression, on average.
In the end though, I feel like you should be observing *proficiency* in the gi, and not just *kata*
Only my professional opinion, of course.
Edited 1 year(s) ago
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
These last few posts do bring up an interesting thought. It's always been said that you don't need belts in Nogi because you have no GI to wear it with. However one could easily make the argument that you don't need colored belts or a ranking system anymore in GI than nogi. I'm going to spend way more time thinking about this than I should.
This is a good point.
Here are my thoughts:
1) The belt rank has a functional application, as it applies directly to your placement in a tournament, especially in an ibjjf tournament, where they no longer combine belt ranks.
Yes, the ibjjf also has nogi divisions, but those are smaller, especially in the advanced divisions. Furthermore, it's notable that they don't have a white belt nogi division at all, and that's based on the idea that you develop proficiency in the gi first.
Yes, this is, of course just what the ibjjf chooses to do, and it's not representative of the dozens of other smaller organizations like Naga, newbreed, grappling industries, etc
Which brings me to my second point...
2) In most nogi divisions, with few exceptions, you can compete at your experience level, and not a "belt level", which seems appropriate, considering you don't wear a belt in nogi.
Experience in other grappling styles, like wrestling or judo are overwhelmingly taken into consideration when signing up for a nogi division.
3) The entire "standard" gi outfit was standardized by Jigoro Kano, for judo, like a million years ago, and the belt ranking system was part of the judogi.
Kano's vision in regards to the qualifications for each rank exceeded basic ability, and extended into the realms of theory and moral development.
However, I'm not convinced that most bjj schools are on the same page, since it is, technically, a different system after all.
In any case, BJJ eventually adopted a modified version of the same system, so, you would think that some similar philosophies would carry over.
But... this is all up for us to decide :).
Here are my thoughts:
1) The belt rank has a functional application, as it applies directly to your placement in a tournament, especially in an ibjjf tournament, where they no longer combine belt ranks.
Yes, the ibjjf also has nogi divisions, but those are smaller, especially in the advanced divisions. Furthermore, it's notable that they don't have a white belt nogi division at all, and that's based on the idea that you develop proficiency in the gi first.
Yes, this is, of course just what the ibjjf chooses to do, and it's not representative of the dozens of other smaller organizations like Naga, newbreed, grappling industries, etc
Which brings me to my second point...
2) In most nogi divisions, with few exceptions, you can compete at your experience level, and not a "belt level", which seems appropriate, considering you don't wear a belt in nogi.
Experience in other grappling styles, like wrestling or judo are overwhelmingly taken into consideration when signing up for a nogi division.
3) The entire "standard" gi outfit was standardized by Jigoro Kano, for judo, like a million years ago, and the belt ranking system was part of the judogi.
Kano's vision in regards to the qualifications for each rank exceeded basic ability, and extended into the realms of theory and moral development.
However, I'm not convinced that most bjj schools are on the same page, since it is, technically, a different system after all.
In any case, BJJ eventually adopted a modified version of the same system, so, you would think that some similar philosophies would carry over.
But... this is all up for us to decide :).
Edited 1 year(s) ago
JL
Black beltPending
1 year(s) ago
I would say if you want to be promoted in jiu jitsu then you must train in the gi. No gi is basically submission grappling. If a student only trains in no gi promote them with a colored rashguard lol. I will say this however; from my experience, I’ve seen people able to transition from no-gi to gi much easier than from gi to no gi. The no-gi grips can work in both situations. And as far as what style is better for the streets? Imo, it doesn’t matter. What matters is that you stay on top and control your opponent. Though once again, no gi grips can work in any situation with any type of clothing.
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
In my opinion, belts are for Gì only, promotion in no-gi like others has stated and I agree with is an entirely different discipline, therefore should be something like a colored rashguard or shorts reflecting the practitioner skill level.


