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People who don't tap
5 year(s) ago • 5323 views • 27 replies
MCBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
What do you think about people not tapping when they should? Is there any valid reason for not tapping? (Apart from becoming a world champion or something like that if you don't)
Personally, I've never had any problem tapping, even to lower belts. If you caught me, you caught me. There's nothing wrong with that. It's happened to me a few times in the past that people refuse to tap, and I'm the kind of guy who refuses to release the submission until you tap, so either I put you to sleep or I take your arm/leg home. Just a few a months ago, I caught a black belt with a D'arce choke (I love them) and he didn't tap, so he took a brief nap, woke up and kept rolling as if nothing happened. I just don't get it.
Personally, I've never had any problem tapping, even to lower belts. If you caught me, you caught me. There's nothing wrong with that. It's happened to me a few times in the past that people refuse to tap, and I'm the kind of guy who refuses to release the submission until you tap, so either I put you to sleep or I take your arm/leg home. Just a few a months ago, I caught a black belt with a D'arce choke (I love them) and he didn't tap, so he took a brief nap, woke up and kept rolling as if nothing happened. I just don't get it.
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
What do you think about people not tapping when they should? Is there any valid reason for not tapping? (Apart from becoming a world champion or something like that if you don't) Personally, I've never had any problem tapping, even to lower belts. If you caught me, you caught me. There's nothing wrong with that. It's happened to me a few times in the past that people refuse to tap, and I'm the kind of guy who refuses to release the submission until you tap, so either I put you to sleep or I take your arm/leg home. Just a few a months ago, I caught a black belt with a D'arce choke (I love them) and he didn't tap, so he took a brief nap, woke up and kept rolling as if nothing happened. I just don't get it.
If it's a joint lock I let it go and transition to something else so I don't injure them. If it's a choke then it will stay applied until they tap if they are not a white belt.
They are just stupid for taking the risks with any sorta of joint locks like a kimura, armbar, leg lock etc. For me kimura seems to be one that people think they can magically fight off once the arm is isolated and they are gravely mistaken. But I just transition to armbar from it and work on my armbar. I don't get frustrated or anything about it in practice. It's just practice. In a tournament though it does annoy me when someone makes me strain their shoulders to the point of them screaming and that is still me being nice about it.
If it's a strangle I am guilty of fighting those off until I start to smell the ocean. I just don't like tapping to strangles and know exactly the point to tap before I pass out. lol I can see someone really making you work for a strangle tap and maybe you were able to just apply the pressure quicker than he calculated.
They are just stupid for taking the risks with any sorta of joint locks like a kimura, armbar, leg lock etc. For me kimura seems to be one that people think they can magically fight off once the arm is isolated and they are gravely mistaken. But I just transition to armbar from it and work on my armbar. I don't get frustrated or anything about it in practice. It's just practice. In a tournament though it does annoy me when someone makes me strain their shoulders to the point of them screaming and that is still me being nice about it.
If it's a strangle I am guilty of fighting those off until I start to smell the ocean. I just don't like tapping to strangles and know exactly the point to tap before I pass out. lol I can see someone really making you work for a strangle tap and maybe you were able to just apply the pressure quicker than he calculated.
MCBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
What's the difference between a strangle and a choke? (I'm a Spanish speaker)
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
What's the difference between a strangle and a choke? (I'm a Spanish speaker)
A strangle is cutting off the blood. (putting them to sleep) not that dangerous
A choke is cutting off the air supply. (attacking the trachea) can cause serious damage
A choke is cutting off the air supply. (attacking the trachea) can cause serious damage
MCBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
That's what I thought. I think in Spanish and Portuguese we usually use the same word for both, estrangulación/estrangulamento. Sometimes the mechanics of a submission isn't clear or it's a mix of both, so I wouldn't know what to call many things.
MGPurple beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I’ve been injured enough now that I’ll tap to a strong breeze, but I do like the feeling of waking up after being choked out tbh.
MCBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I had a girlfriend who enjoyed the occasional choking...
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I’ve been injured enough now that I’ll tap to a strong breeze, but I do like the feeling of waking up after being choked out tbh.
I literally start to smell the ocean. That's when I know when to tap. lol
WFBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
What do you think about people not tapping when they should? Is there any valid reason for not tapping? (Apart from becoming a world champion or something like that if you don't) Personally, I've never had any problem tapping, even to lower belts. If you caught me, you caught me. There's nothing wrong with that. It's happened to me a few times in the past that people refuse to tap, and I'm the kind of guy who refuses to release the submission until you tap, so either I put you to sleep or I take your arm/leg home. Just a few a months ago, I caught a black belt with a D'arce choke (I love them) and he didn't tap, so he took a brief nap, woke up and kept rolling as if nothing happened. I just don't get it.
agree completely. i hold submissions until a tap or they tap verbally. and yes if you get caught you get caught lower belt or higher belt. I have a physical job and need to be on my feet all day so especially if one of my legs get caught in something soon as i realize i cant escape im tapping. At the end of the day we all wanna go home healthy and uninjured and be able to continue to train!
MCBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
agree completely. i hold submissions until a tap or they tap verbally. and yes if you get caught you get caught lower belt or higher belt. I have a physical job and need to be on my feet all day so especially if one of my legs get caught in something soon as i realize i cant escape im tapping. At the end of the day we all wanna go home healthy and uninjured and be able to continue to train!
I couldn't agree more.
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SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
What do you think about people not tapping when they should? Is there any valid reason for not tapping?
They are idiots, so no. I really, REALLY hate the macho "grr, I'm so tough I watch my own arm break, see how stoic I am. Hooray, now I can't train for ages, wasn't that a fantastic idea."
Naturally you don't want to tap immediately (unless it's something that comes on super quick, like a heel hook), as your partner will want to learn the difference between getting a submission and just making somebody uncomfortable. But erring on the side of caution is always sensible.
Not tapping, never sensible. I can understand somebody doing it in a megabucks MMA fight or something, but in a BJJ tournament where at best you might win enough to pay some of your medical bills? Silly.
Naturally you don't want to tap immediately (unless it's something that comes on super quick, like a heel hook), as your partner will want to learn the difference between getting a submission and just making somebody uncomfortable. But erring on the side of caution is always sensible.
Not tapping, never sensible. I can understand somebody doing it in a megabucks MMA fight or something, but in a BJJ tournament where at best you might win enough to pay some of your medical bills? Silly.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I have gone to sleep 2 times I think... both times I remember thinking that "It's a bit tighter than I thought It'd be but I think I can manage to defend..."
SLBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I have no issue with tapping. I really do value my limbs. If I tap at the right time I get to learn and develop - if I don’t tap then there is a chance I won’t be learning much other than a new way to wipe my ass or walk to the toilet in the first place.....
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
tap quick and tap often, train forever
CBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I tap to prevent damage. I release to prevent damage. But if I get a strangle hold, you either tap or you nap. Or I get bored and try something new. Usually the latter with newbs.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
There are a variety of reasons why people may not want to tap. Maybe the person they are rolling with is an asshole and someone doesn't want to give them the pleasure of satisfying their ego by tapping. Maybe to them it was totally worth it. I can see that.
Maybe there are ultra competitive. Nothing wrong with that.
Maybe they have a last name that has a history of not tapping and they feel obligated not to tap for family honor. I can understand that.
Me personally, I am probably going to tap. But I can completely understand when someone doesn't want to.
Maybe there are ultra competitive. Nothing wrong with that.
Maybe they have a last name that has a history of not tapping and they feel obligated not to tap for family honor. I can understand that.
Me personally, I am probably going to tap. But I can completely understand when someone doesn't want to.
RGBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I've had guys not want to tap before. I'm sure we all come across it sooner or later. If it's a joint lock like an Arm bar, I just control it, fully extend it, and wait. Either they tap or it starts to get really awkward after a minute of me holding them in the position just waiting lol!
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I've had guys not want to tap before. I'm sure we all come across it sooner or later. If it's a joint lock like an Arm bar, I just control it, fully extend it, and wait. Either they tap or it starts to get really awkward after a minute of me holding them in the position just waiting lol!
Make prolonged eye contact ... :)
ANBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
sacrificing your health willingly for jiu jitsu is as honorable as it is stupid.
some just want to push their own limits, and poker a bit too high
others just have too much pride
i have zero pity for the later
hell i love it when i sound like some smart ass samurai
but obviously im talking about competition,
if you let yourself get fucked up in training willingly just GTFO and kill yourself...
usually i just go for something else, but if i notice somebody repeatedly getting lets say into armbars
or if i get him into armbars several times and he doesnt tap
then at some point to help heal his stupid and also to help him not get a worse injury with somebody else
(im really trying to be nice here and prevent worse!!!)
i catch him again and extend to the limit and then very very very slowly add pressure milimeter by milimeter
until they do tap, i have yet to find one who does not tap
because nearly all joint locks if extended extremely carefully to the very limit start hurting like fucking hell
you gotta be a very special human being if you can just lay there for a minute and enjoy a pain that comes close to getting a tooth pulled out...
they get slightly over extended maybe have pains and trouble for a few weeks and come back humbled and wiser
some just want to push their own limits, and poker a bit too high
others just have too much pride
i have zero pity for the later
hell i love it when i sound like some smart ass samurai
but obviously im talking about competition,
if you let yourself get fucked up in training willingly just GTFO and kill yourself...
usually i just go for something else, but if i notice somebody repeatedly getting lets say into armbars
or if i get him into armbars several times and he doesnt tap
then at some point to help heal his stupid and also to help him not get a worse injury with somebody else
(im really trying to be nice here and prevent worse!!!)
i catch him again and extend to the limit and then very very very slowly add pressure milimeter by milimeter
until they do tap, i have yet to find one who does not tap
because nearly all joint locks if extended extremely carefully to the very limit start hurting like fucking hell
you gotta be a very special human being if you can just lay there for a minute and enjoy a pain that comes close to getting a tooth pulled out...
they get slightly over extended maybe have pains and trouble for a few weeks and come back humbled and wiser
Edited 5 year(s) ago
LWBlue beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I need all my limbs and joints working. I can’t train if I I’m injured. I’ll tap regardless of rank.
DPBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
When being tapped out I get improved !
During sparring - Get tapped by my own students, get tapped by less knowledgeable people, get tapped because being careless, get tapped because I’m uncomfortable and not even close to to be submitted… it’s just a Game, even if it’s the best social physical game ever. Sparring is an advanced laboratory to figure out effectiveness of movements and using my ego to evolve and remain realistic towards life.
Competition is different. Just take a glance at injuries on the Olympic Games.
P.s: if one doesn’t tap on purpose when I apply an accurate good submission then I let go.
During sparring - Get tapped by my own students, get tapped by less knowledgeable people, get tapped because being careless, get tapped because I’m uncomfortable and not even close to to be submitted… it’s just a Game, even if it’s the best social physical game ever. Sparring is an advanced laboratory to figure out effectiveness of movements and using my ego to evolve and remain realistic towards life.
Competition is different. Just take a glance at injuries on the Olympic Games.
P.s: if one doesn’t tap on purpose when I apply an accurate good submission then I let go.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
FCBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Only Klingons don't tap !
FGBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
During training I tap and scream like a little baby, when I was young I would risk injury all the time competing because winning was my only goal and I was convinced as long as I wasn't unconscious I could win. Now in competition when I know I am caught I tap and make sure the opponent and ref know it.
When rolling in class if I get a stubborn guy it's catch and release. In competition I will apply increasing pressure. Twice in the last couple years I actually asked are you going to tap one did and the other didn't and got hurt. I view it as part of an experienced persons responsibility not to hurt training partners but in competition I will not let people rely and my hesitancy to hurt them to get over.
When rolling in class if I get a stubborn guy it's catch and release. In competition I will apply increasing pressure. Twice in the last couple years I actually asked are you going to tap one did and the other didn't and got hurt. I view it as part of an experienced persons responsibility not to hurt training partners but in competition I will not let people rely and my hesitancy to hurt them to get over.
RBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Not to be "that guy" with semantics -- but a choke is an internal blockage of the airway (food or object.). A strangle is an external blocking of blood flow or oxygen to the brain. All technical "chokes" in jiu-jitsu are strangles, unless you are somehow shoving your hand into their mouth/throat to stop their breathing ability. I say "choke" too, so I'm not saying I'm any better, but making the correction for the Spanish speaker that asked for an explanation of the difference between a strangle and a choke.
As for the original topic -- I have (and will continue to) tap to higher, lower, and equal-to belts. BJJ doesn't pay the bills and ego is stupid. With that being said, I'm not one of those that will tap just because something is uncomfortable or mildly painful. If you catch me and I can't escape I'm tapping, no doubt. As for the people I train with that are stubborn to tap, I will let go of my submission. Even chokes. It's just not worth it and you don't know what complications could occur with someone if you put them to sleep. Training is training, and if I knew I had the submission dead to rights, then who cares if someone doesn't tap? In competition -- you do you. If it's a low level competition I still think you should gradually apply the submission on joints, but go ahead and put 'em to sleep if they refuse to submit.
Too many proud people out there that take themselves too seriously.
As for the original topic -- I have (and will continue to) tap to higher, lower, and equal-to belts. BJJ doesn't pay the bills and ego is stupid. With that being said, I'm not one of those that will tap just because something is uncomfortable or mildly painful. If you catch me and I can't escape I'm tapping, no doubt. As for the people I train with that are stubborn to tap, I will let go of my submission. Even chokes. It's just not worth it and you don't know what complications could occur with someone if you put them to sleep. Training is training, and if I knew I had the submission dead to rights, then who cares if someone doesn't tap? In competition -- you do you. If it's a low level competition I still think you should gradually apply the submission on joints, but go ahead and put 'em to sleep if they refuse to submit.
Too many proud people out there that take themselves too seriously.
AWBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
If it is a choke, and I know who u are, I will hold it and keep checking to see if u passed out. Most people who have been training know their limit.
If it is a lock, I will hold it and barely increase pressure. Again, if I know you, I am trusting that you know your limit. If I really think something is going to break or dislocate, I will still hold but not really increase any pressure. I will try not to break anything and for the most part they end up tapping or escaping. Very few times has that ever escalated to an injury.
Now, if you are someone that I don’t know. Maybe a visitor to the academy or a newer/lower rank that I don’t have experience with then I will usually just let it go and after the roll I will politely ask if they felt it was a deep as I thought and explain that I was nervous. If they say they were cool, bullshit or not, I will give them the benefit of the doubt and next time we can push it a little further.
If I am visiting another academy, I will usually roll very playfully. My philosophy when I am rolling with people for the first time in their home is that I would rather you tap me out than catch me trying. I am super playful and will let go of everything and I am very quick to tap. It is just out of respect. I am not going to be “that guy”.
Lastly, if you are someone that I don’t know that forces me to choke you out or injure you, I will usually never roll with u again. And I will tell other people to avoid you because you are reckless.
If it is a lock, I will hold it and barely increase pressure. Again, if I know you, I am trusting that you know your limit. If I really think something is going to break or dislocate, I will still hold but not really increase any pressure. I will try not to break anything and for the most part they end up tapping or escaping. Very few times has that ever escalated to an injury.
Now, if you are someone that I don’t know. Maybe a visitor to the academy or a newer/lower rank that I don’t have experience with then I will usually just let it go and after the roll I will politely ask if they felt it was a deep as I thought and explain that I was nervous. If they say they were cool, bullshit or not, I will give them the benefit of the doubt and next time we can push it a little further.
If I am visiting another academy, I will usually roll very playfully. My philosophy when I am rolling with people for the first time in their home is that I would rather you tap me out than catch me trying. I am super playful and will let go of everything and I am very quick to tap. It is just out of respect. I am not going to be “that guy”.
Lastly, if you are someone that I don’t know that forces me to choke you out or injure you, I will usually never roll with u again. And I will tell other people to avoid you because you are reckless.
RBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
If it is a choke, and I know who u are, I will hold it and keep checking to see if u passed out. Most people who have been training know their limit. If it is a lock, I will hold it and barely increase pressure. Again, if I know you, I am trusting that you know your limit. If I really think something is going to break or dislocate, I will still hold but not really increase any pressure. I will try not to break anything and for the most part they end up tapping or escaping. Very few times has that ever escalated to an injury. Now, if you are someone that I don’t know. Maybe a visitor to the academy or a newer/lower rank that I don’t have experience with then I will usually just let it go and after the roll I will politely ask if they felt it was a deep as I thought and explain that I was nervous. If they say they were cool, bullshit or not, I will give them the benefit of the doubt and next time we can push it a little further. If I am visiting another academy, I will usually roll very playfully. My philosophy when I am rolling with people for the first time in their home is that I would rather you tap me out than catch me trying. I am super playful and will let go of everything and I am very quick to tap. It is just out of respect. I am not going to be “that guy”. Lastly, if you are someone that I don’t know that forces me to choke you out or injure you, I will usually never roll with u again. And I will tell other people to avoid you because you are reckless.
Absolutely agree. Respect.
HDBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
What do you think about people not tapping when they should? Is there any valid reason for not tapping? (Apart from becoming a world champion or something like that if you don't) Personally, I've never had any problem tapping, even to lower belts. If you caught me, you caught me. There's nothing wrong with that. It's happened to me a few times in the past that people refuse to tap, and I'm the kind of guy who refuses to release the submission until you tap, so either I put you to sleep or I take your arm/leg home. Just a few a months ago, I caught a black belt with a D'arce choke (I love them) and he didn't tap, so he took a brief nap, woke up and kept rolling as if nothing happened. I just don't get it.
I think it depends a bit. I do tap/change position against most, but I also have two guys I’ve sparred with for over thirteen years now. We usually test our limits but that’s because we also know one another so well after years in all the belts.
Also goes the other way, I really know when I got them or if I am caught with no way out. As long as it’s not about muscling, “jaw-chokes” and relentless jacking, it’s great.
But I would never stay in a close lock with someone I don’t have that knowledge of, nor would I “try to win” when sparring if that means put someone out or damage joints. I rather try to find a different position/submission then.
When I teach I try to emphasize what my professor taught me and leave the prestige at the door step when entering class.
Also goes the other way, I really know when I got them or if I am caught with no way out. As long as it’s not about muscling, “jaw-chokes” and relentless jacking, it’s great.
But I would never stay in a close lock with someone I don’t have that knowledge of, nor would I “try to win” when sparring if that means put someone out or damage joints. I rather try to find a different position/submission then.
When I teach I try to emphasize what my professor taught me and leave the prestige at the door step when entering class.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
