You do not need to ever cover a single takedown or throw as part of a successful Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu gym. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is, at this point, just groundwork. But that is not how we personally do things at my Academy nor within my affiliation.

I have to respectfully disagree! How can someone possibly train Jiu Jitsu and not learn a throw or single takedown and call themselves a Jiu Jitsu student? That would be like learning to swim on a bench and never jumping in the water... The throw or takedown is what allows you to utilise your ground game! Yes, Jiu jitsu these days is predominantly a ground based art, but you need to be able to take your opponent down to actually use your Jiu Jitsu. This should apply both Gi and No Gi for sport, for MMA and of course for Self defense!

Ihave to disagree here. Joe's main adjective was being a 'Successful' BJJ Gym. You can medal at Black Belt Worlds by just pulling guard and sweeping. You don't need a single takedown. That's not to say it's good Jiu-Jitsu, but you can be successful without those skills.

I have to respectfully disagree! How can someone possibly train Jiu Jitsu and not learn a throw or single takedown and call themselves a Jiu Jitsu student? That would be like learning to swim on a bench and never jumping in the water... The throw or takedown is what allows you to utilise your ground game! Yes, Jiu jitsu these days is predominantly a ground based art, but you need to be able to take your opponent down to actually use your Jiu Jitsu. This should apply both Gi and No Gi for sport, for MMA and of course for Self defense!

What Joe is getting at is the specialization of sport BJJ. Many competitors go out and don't even attempt a takedown especially in the Gi preferring to pull or even sit guard. Hell in high level competition i have had a couple pull half guard

I always tell my MMA guys the should also do kickboxing and grappling events because if you can hang in the specialists game when they play yours it's a huge edge

Exactly. BJJ is ground work. That's it's specialty. Judo's is throws. Wrestling's is takedowns. While a BJJ school might cover some Judo throws and some takedowns, they are not usually showing up to Judo and wrestling tournaments. If you really want to make you people do throws and takedowns then make them go to Judo and wrestling tournaments. That provides the proper motivation to get better in that area.

This is why I've always felt that if they changed the point scoring system in tournaments, it may encourage more standing grappling exchanges..... 4 pts- Takedowns/Throws 4 pts- Guard Passes Why 4? Because those are probably two of the hardest things to become proficient in as a competitor (in my humble opinion) 2 points for sweeps, knee on belly (even though I never thought knee on belly needed points..... Hell I'd rather give points to guys executing a bump and roll or guard recovery from a pinned/mounted position than knee on belly points). 3 points for mount/back mount. If more people felt like they would stand to gain more taking a guy down, and passing his guard, rather thank sit and sweep and pass, they may try to implement takedowns more ..... Of course, that would require those Brazilians to not be scared of America Wrestlers and Russian/Japanese Judokas like they were in the 90's when they would blast double and throw them around, hopefully they've learn how to defend by now.

Absolutely. I've watched a lot of matches at local tournaments, and especially at the lower levels it looks like people tire out the most during the takedown battle. If a student develops confident with the takedown, then not only will they have the obvious benefit of having a better chance at winning the takedown battle, but they won't have the nerves and the increased energy expenditure that comes with them. And obviously having skills in a ground based martial art are useless if you're unable to take a fight to the ground. Plus, takedowns look cool

It depends on what you want out of jiu jitsu and your relationship with it. Some want to learn it for self defense, others to supplement their striking or other martial arts, and still others just for submission grappling sport. Some adhere to the Brazilian version, while most have adapted to the modern sport version. Everyone is right, everyone is wrong. Let's have a pizza

Start your own tournaments with that ruleset and call it something else. If it becomes popular then you have something that works. Now let's address that last part of your post..... So in looking at where you train, it's a Royce Gracie affiliate, yes? And you're stating that 'those Brazilians' were afraid of American wrestlers and Russian/Japanese Judokas and that they should have learned to defend the takedown by now? Can you elaborate on who you mean when you say 'those Brazilians'?

Most sweeps at high level are finished with a takedown. This skill is vastly improved by also doing standup wrestling & takedowns.