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Can a gym be overtaken by toxic positivity and "to o accepting" to a point it's a bit too much ?
3 year(s) ago • 1955 views • 11 replies
VBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I see more and more gyms going the "positive vibe only" way. I mean, I'm all for inclusive training environment, chilled gi policies, relaxed atmosphere and not treating people like children, ie if you arrive late or forgot your belt.
The thing I also notice is the extreme lack of formality is becoming a bit chaotic in some gyms. In some places, it borders on a good % of people clearly not even being members and/or paying, zero team unity, classes starting a bit late and finishing at a random time without a formal or semi-formal closing. Some places are plagued with skin diseases and people are still jsut saying "hey guys don't forget to shower" instead of addressing some critical issues with repeating offenders.
I've visited gyms with tons of links to social medias, QR codes, pictures, etc. but litterally no front desk or person to talk to when you show up. Is the EXTREME positivity and open-mindness just for show ? Is it possible to just go too far with the sunshine and rainbows and positivity to the point of conflict avoindance ?
Maybe I'm just cynical, but it's not realistic to just really fucking love EVERYONE.
The thing I also notice is the extreme lack of formality is becoming a bit chaotic in some gyms. In some places, it borders on a good % of people clearly not even being members and/or paying, zero team unity, classes starting a bit late and finishing at a random time without a formal or semi-formal closing. Some places are plagued with skin diseases and people are still jsut saying "hey guys don't forget to shower" instead of addressing some critical issues with repeating offenders.
I've visited gyms with tons of links to social medias, QR codes, pictures, etc. but litterally no front desk or person to talk to when you show up. Is the EXTREME positivity and open-mindness just for show ? Is it possible to just go too far with the sunshine and rainbows and positivity to the point of conflict avoindance ?
Maybe I'm just cynical, but it's not realistic to just really fucking love EVERYONE.
BZBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
To be honest, at my own gym, it's like japanes old school mentality, rules for everything, when you come to late, when you have to leave the mat, you have to ask my permission. We have an amazing atmosphère because everyone know his/her place and i take care of everything, helped by the sempai.
I didn't feel right in places like you describes above.
I didn't feel right in places like you describes above.
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
The thing I also notice is the extreme lack of formality is becoming a bit chaotic in some gyms. In some places, it borders on a good % of people clearly not even being members and/or paying, zero team unity, classes starting a bit late and finishing at a random time without a formal or semi-formal closing. Some places are plagued with skin diseases and people are still jsut saying 'hey guys don't forget to shower' instead of addressing some critical issues with repeating offenders. I've visited gyms with tons of links to social medias, QR codes, pictures, etc. but litterally no front desk or person to talk to when you show up. Is the EXTREME positivity and open-mindness just for show ? Is it possible to just go too far with the sunshine and rainbows and positivity to the point of conflict avoindance ? Maybe I'm just cynical, but it's not realistic to just really fucking love EVERYONE.
I'm not sure that having a "chill, relaxing vibe", and being professional are necessarily mutually exclusive. You can absolutely have both at the same time, or just one or the other. I think we do a really good job at our gym if striking a good balance, in this regard.
At our gym, you can wear pretty much any gi you want, so long that it's clean. Our front desk is ALWAYS manned, facilities are clean, class starts on time and are well organized.
We include some formalities, such as lining up and bowing in/out when class begins/ends, while omitting weird, culty traditions like asking permission to drink water or address senior members by archaic, formal titles. Meanwhile, we're completely unaffiliated and welcome pretty much anyone.
We do our part to address specific public health concerns, such as body odor and skin issues, and we provide showers and clean gis to anyone who needs them. At the same time, at least half the people who come to our gym, completely unprompted, always let us know how much they appreciate the vibe.
Who cares if the students aren't members, or have any sort of team unity? They're not paying me their money for that.
I'm not sure that you can't be all sunshine and rainbows, while also making hard calls and being professional.
You can absolutely fucking love EVERYONE and still maintain/enforce appropriate boundaries.
I do think you're being too cynical :).
At our gym, you can wear pretty much any gi you want, so long that it's clean. Our front desk is ALWAYS manned, facilities are clean, class starts on time and are well organized.
We include some formalities, such as lining up and bowing in/out when class begins/ends, while omitting weird, culty traditions like asking permission to drink water or address senior members by archaic, formal titles. Meanwhile, we're completely unaffiliated and welcome pretty much anyone.
We do our part to address specific public health concerns, such as body odor and skin issues, and we provide showers and clean gis to anyone who needs them. At the same time, at least half the people who come to our gym, completely unprompted, always let us know how much they appreciate the vibe.
Who cares if the students aren't members, or have any sort of team unity? They're not paying me their money for that.
I'm not sure that you can't be all sunshine and rainbows, while also making hard calls and being professional.
You can absolutely fucking love EVERYONE and still maintain/enforce appropriate boundaries.
I do think you're being too cynical :).
Edited 3 year(s) ago
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I agree with Bobby that I don’t think you’re describing a place that’s “too positive” more than a place that’s just unprofessionally run.
JMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I run an extremely non traditional school. I haven’t noticed any correlation with uncleanliness or lack of team cohesion.
We sort of focus on eliminating tokens of respect (bowing and that sort of thing) and increasing actual respect (rolling at an appropriate intensity, staying clean, showing up for each other).
I’ve been to a lot of schools and the correlation I see with the level of business professionalism seems to be more linked to the size of the school. Not sure which way the causality goes. Bigger schools just seem to have better systems in place.
Overall I think one thing two people I really respect have said to me is “Everyone will end up where they belong and it’s great that there are options for everyone”.
We sort of focus on eliminating tokens of respect (bowing and that sort of thing) and increasing actual respect (rolling at an appropriate intensity, staying clean, showing up for each other).
I’ve been to a lot of schools and the correlation I see with the level of business professionalism seems to be more linked to the size of the school. Not sure which way the causality goes. Bigger schools just seem to have better systems in place.
Overall I think one thing two people I really respect have said to me is “Everyone will end up where they belong and it’s great that there are options for everyone”.
ANBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I see more and more gyms going the 'positive vibe only' way. I mean, I'm all for inclusive training environment, chilled gi policies, relaxed atmosphere and not treating people like children, ie if you arrive late or forgot your belt. The thing I also notice is the extreme lack of formality is becoming a bit chaotic in some gyms. In some places, it borders on a good % of people clearly not even being members and/or paying, zero team unity, classes starting a bit late and finishing at a random time without a formal or semi-formal closing. Some places are plagued with skin diseases and people are still jsut saying 'hey guys don't forget to shower' instead of addressing some critical issues with repeating offenders. I've visited gyms with tons of links to social medias, QR codes, pictures, etc. but litterally no front desk or person to talk to when you show up. Is the EXTREME positivity and open-mindness just for show ? Is it possible to just go too far with the sunshine and rainbows and positivity to the point of conflict avoindance ? Maybe I'm just cynical, but it's not realistic to just really fucking love EVERYONE.
sounds like an unprofessional atmosphere. I think what helps is a good mentorship program for new gym owners. you should have someone you want to emulate, a standard in your mind. And if you can get that person on board to help you out with guidance once and a while, and stay a little humble, you might be able to emulate their success. the best BJJ students, don't always make the best gym owners.
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I think there are 2 separate issues here a lack of professionalism at some gyms and your expectations.
The only real issues I see you pointing out is cleanliness and complete chaos in the gym.
The rest is your expectations. Some people like a formal class with a defined structure, some like it a little more relaxed but more structured others prefer informal. Just as every student has a style of teaching they prefer many teachers have their own way of doing things.
I am VERY informal and low key but my gym has a strong team feeling and a great sense of unity. When I left NY and Vegas many of my guys had difficulty finding gyms they felt comfortable at because they didn't have a similar vibe.
I think the key is to find whats right for you and not worry what other people are doing
The only real issues I see you pointing out is cleanliness and complete chaos in the gym.
The rest is your expectations. Some people like a formal class with a defined structure, some like it a little more relaxed but more structured others prefer informal. Just as every student has a style of teaching they prefer many teachers have their own way of doing things.
I am VERY informal and low key but my gym has a strong team feeling and a great sense of unity. When I left NY and Vegas many of my guys had difficulty finding gyms they felt comfortable at because they didn't have a similar vibe.
I think the key is to find whats right for you and not worry what other people are doing
VCBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I run my classes in a very informal way, no line up according to belt rank, no 'ossing' in and out or everytime I provide (verbal) instruction, no perpetual 'slap bump'ing. All these are optional so do it if you're comfortable with it. I don't see how these improves one's jiujitsu skills.
I occasionally remind newbies to be aware of their periphery, everyone follows hygiene rules. As it's not my full time facility ( I coach out of someone else's mats) there is no dedicated front desk staff so I handle everything online/mobile. There is no requirement for check-in, front desk payment, etc. all this pointing to this anecdotal evidence that an informal place can be efficiently operated. Like many others have pointed out, perhaps your mat culture expectations needs to match with a gym that fulfils your needs and requirements.
I occasionally remind newbies to be aware of their periphery, everyone follows hygiene rules. As it's not my full time facility ( I coach out of someone else's mats) there is no dedicated front desk staff so I handle everything online/mobile. There is no requirement for check-in, front desk payment, etc. all this pointing to this anecdotal evidence that an informal place can be efficiently operated. Like many others have pointed out, perhaps your mat culture expectations needs to match with a gym that fulfils your needs and requirements.
CRBrown beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I've experienced both ends of the spectrum - old school mentality with rules for everything, and also very chill, informal gyms. I really prefer the latter. As others have said above, you can be professional and informal - the issue here is that it is unprofessional and informal. In an old-school style gym I attended, there were silly rules like having to stand with your arms by your sides (not crossed in front or behind you, or holding your own hand etc), making sure not to lean on the wall if you're tired, never asking black belts for a roll and more. That last one I found out the hard way when the coach took issue with me asking him to roll and put me to sleep; I left that gym shortly thereafter. I know this is quite an extreme example that I have given, but it has really soured my appetite for any old-school gyms.
Where I am now is very informal, but there's no hint of unprofessionalism. I think why this approach works is that there's a certain amount of BS that goes along with traditions that give the appearance of seriousness, when in reality it's a bit silly - it's not the formality per se that leads to great rolls and improving your skills, it's having people you trust to roll with and push you without fear. But that's my view on it, and I can understand the appeal of having a more traditional set up as well.
Where I am now is very informal, but there's no hint of unprofessionalism. I think why this approach works is that there's a certain amount of BS that goes along with traditions that give the appearance of seriousness, when in reality it's a bit silly - it's not the formality per se that leads to great rolls and improving your skills, it's having people you trust to roll with and push you without fear. But that's my view on it, and I can understand the appeal of having a more traditional set up as well.
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SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Positivity is good. I'd like to see much more of it in BJJ. My gym is super duper informal: full on tie dye rainbow gi, no weird rules about bowing etc, I don't care if you skip the warm-up, open mat goes for as long as you want whenever I'm not running a class, etc.
But yeah, like others have said, being professional and conscientious is good too. It's not hard to do both. ;)
But yeah, like others have said, being professional and conscientious is good too. It's not hard to do both. ;)
MGBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
We have a very informal school and great mutual support without a lot of "team" exclusivity. We invite other schools to participate in our open mats, and we freely go to open mats run by "sister" schools in the area. In fact many of our black belts have gone on to run their own schools which has sort of created a network and allowed folks to reduce travel time significantly. Classes often run overtime and that can cause a schedule back-up, But most classes also allow for the students to stay and roll afterwards if they're so inclined.
Personally I'm a big advocate of 'bowing in' at the beginning of class and 'bowing out' at the end. In addition to showing respect for the teacher, it also designates a very specific beginning to the class and says "it's time to stop fooling around and to pay attention". Often, after a particularly grueling workout, I will have everyone go down on their knees (seiza) for a minute of relaxed breathing and meditation. Most of the students really appreciate that. We also shake hands in a line (or hug) at the end of each class which helps with bonding and making sure everyone gets to know everyone else. It also gives a chance to say "good work" or to welcome a newbie to the class.
Personally I'm not a fan of the "1-2-3 clap" which signals the end of an instruction segment and says, 'time to practice the technique', but I understand that some kind of acknowledgement is useful, and that is the one our head instructor has chosen. In my judo classes, it has become a sort of a joke, and adding an element of humor is nice for breaking the tension of hard work.
Personally I'm a big advocate of 'bowing in' at the beginning of class and 'bowing out' at the end. In addition to showing respect for the teacher, it also designates a very specific beginning to the class and says "it's time to stop fooling around and to pay attention". Often, after a particularly grueling workout, I will have everyone go down on their knees (seiza) for a minute of relaxed breathing and meditation. Most of the students really appreciate that. We also shake hands in a line (or hug) at the end of each class which helps with bonding and making sure everyone gets to know everyone else. It also gives a chance to say "good work" or to welcome a newbie to the class.
Personally I'm not a fan of the "1-2-3 clap" which signals the end of an instruction segment and says, 'time to practice the technique', but I understand that some kind of acknowledgement is useful, and that is the one our head instructor has chosen. In my judo classes, it has become a sort of a joke, and adding an element of humor is nice for breaking the tension of hard work.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
JBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Many schools are part-time efforts. We have 8 to 10 black belts active during the week, in morning and evening classes. There is no front desk, per se, and social media is an effective contact method for visitors and prospective students. I wouldn't see this method of operation as an issue unless people cannot get the information they need. If the door is unlocked, a brown or black belt is on the mats to take care of things in person. I get the impression that A LOT of schools operate in the same fashion.
Formalities without a good reason or for the purpose of maintaining tradition are just perfunctory and make a gym feel more "martial artsy." I bow on and off the mat, both as a holdover from my karate years and as a sign of respect for the training floor. My respect for my professor is shown in everything that I do, and a simple handshake and courteous interactions are enough for him. That means they are good enough for the rest of the gym.
If there is a problem, it should be addressed. That includes anything like etiquette, hygiene, or the other things you've mentioned. After years in the military, I appreciate the relaxed environment and the subdued structure behind the training. That doesn't mean it is unprofessional, just focused more on the training instead of a hierarchy that everyone already understands and abides by.
I have never heard any of our black belts scold someone for missing a warm-up. Show up, train, and get better. We're adults, and reasons for being late happen to professors too. Would we expect to scold them? No, not at all. I don't train BJJ because I want more discipline or because I want to be the best at anything. That isn't extreme positivity, it is just the reality of having adult learners who have lives off the mat.
Formalities without a good reason or for the purpose of maintaining tradition are just perfunctory and make a gym feel more "martial artsy." I bow on and off the mat, both as a holdover from my karate years and as a sign of respect for the training floor. My respect for my professor is shown in everything that I do, and a simple handshake and courteous interactions are enough for him. That means they are good enough for the rest of the gym.
If there is a problem, it should be addressed. That includes anything like etiquette, hygiene, or the other things you've mentioned. After years in the military, I appreciate the relaxed environment and the subdued structure behind the training. That doesn't mean it is unprofessional, just focused more on the training instead of a hierarchy that everyone already understands and abides by.
I have never heard any of our black belts scold someone for missing a warm-up. Show up, train, and get better. We're adults, and reasons for being late happen to professors too. Would we expect to scold them? No, not at all. I don't train BJJ because I want more discipline or because I want to be the best at anything. That isn't extreme positivity, it is just the reality of having adult learners who have lives off the mat.
